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When people don't want to pay

Discussion in 'Marketing' started by THE SALES WARLORD, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. THE SALES WARLORD

    THE SALES WARLORD Member

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    So those of us who DO charge for our time / product / services come across people all the time who say:

    "I really like the idea of (thing you sell) but I have no money, but maybe if you (give me / do stuff for me) I can take (x $$ worth of) your (time / product / service) and maybe in the future I can pay you something or do something for you sometime?"

    Now I know how I deal with this.

    My paying clients, my lovely partner, my dog, my hunting buddies, my paying clients, my family, my paying clients, etc deserve my time so why would I give you my time for free?

    I mean you either don't value me enough to pay or you have no money.

    One or the other.

    If you have no money, then you are playing at a much lower level than I am and I cannot afford to risk my time, after all what guarantee do I have you will follow through with what I tell you?

    If you REALLY value what I do but you want to save money and have something you think I will want - by all means offer me VALUE in return, but fer crying out loud come up with SOMETHING to offer me, or if you aren't sure, ASK me what you could do in return?

    I wanted to get some feedback from people on how they address this?

    Do you cave in and do it for nothing?

    Do you handle it differently?

    Whats your take on this issue?
  2. dan

    dan Guest

    Promises don't pay the bills.
  3. THE SALES WARLORD

    THE SALES WARLORD Member

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    Isn't that the truth Dan.

    How do you deal with well meaning "dealmakers" when they come to you with this sort of approach?
  4. dan

    dan Guest

    It depends on what sort of deal they want to make, who they are, would I like to work with them etc. I weigh it all up. The most common promise is "there will be more work later on... or bigger budget".... which I totally ignore. You have to suss out the client and decide if they are worth it.
  5. Jay-T

    Jay-T Member

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    I agree.

    From my own experience when you give value away for free it gets tossed and not actioned and that pisses me off big time!

    So I rarely ever do it

    Although I'm seriously considering creating a quick guide on how to make more sales than The Sales Warlord & LeelaCosgrove Combined

    ;)
  6. LeelaCosgrove

    LeelaCosgrove Member

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    I'll buy that when you're done, Willa!

    Sold!
  7. THE SALES WARLORD

    THE SALES WARLORD Member

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    I usually get people coming to me who are so scared of selling they just cannot believe they have what it takes - so they are scared to invest.

    Because they know they want to wuss out!

    So the whole % of what I sell thing comes up a lot - I am like -

    "ok so you've told me you can't sell and you're afraid of sales and you don't have the money to pay me, and you want my help and you know my prices, so because you don't believe in yourself / my ability now you want to put that back on ME?"

    Thing they don't realize is in the time it takes me to convince them and benchpress them out of their negative stuff, I could just go sell someone who wants it and get paid...

    WIIFM?

    People who don't understand this basic principle of sales....

    I worry about doing business with them.

    How do you suss them out?
  8. dan

    dan Guest

    Through conversation. What they say, how they say it... tells me lots. After a while you get to pick out the tyre kickers from the genuine thing fairly quickly.

    It's harder to sell something you can't see. Which is why i'm quite dubious about people who are coaches, marketers, motivational speakers and the like. They spin a lot of crap and try to sell you the "dream", making lots of promises. And ofcourse everyone has a pushy salesperson story they remember.
  9. LeelaCosgrove

    LeelaCosgrove Member

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    Ahhhhh.

    I see.

    You're one of THOSE Dan.

    Professional cynic.

    Good luck with that. Hope it gets you where you want to go.
  10. dan

    dan Guest

    Excuse me for exercising my own judgment.
  11. THE SALES WARLORD

    THE SALES WARLORD Member

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    Yeah look I hear this sort of thing a lot, and it's true there are a lot of unprofessional snake - oil types out there, but in the end results talk.

    I have no issues selling myself, but I do see a lot of people who need what I teach who haven't yet stepped up into their full potential.

    And they sometimes have to make me the "bad guy" to continue to stay in the rut rather than step up and stretch themselves.

    If people WANT to get better sales results, sooner or later they need help from someone who has been where they have troubles reaching.

    If they aren't from a sales management background and haven't sold millions of dollars in products and services, can they use my help?

    YES.

    What if there was a simple way to put all the fear and doubt and emotion of the sale behind you and just do what your clients need you to do to get them interested?

    Would that help most people through the "sales is evil" phase and start them making more money?

    YES...

    What if you had this system and saw so many people wasting time in that negative headspace that it made you crazy sometimes how close they were to success if they would only listen and act?

    Well would you be prepared to go further in your LOVE of people to want to take them OUT of that dark painful place no matter HOW hard they fought?

    Would you take the names and slights and be called a "pushy salesman" to try and help people get past the negativity?

    Or would you say bugger it?

    Trick is with coaches speakers etc in finding one who HAS gotten the results.

    Someone who has BEEN where you don't want to be anymore and gotten better results than you are getting.

    But most importantly, someone you can respect and learn from.

    Otherwise you ARE wasting money!

    And I guess that's what the original post was about, helping people to respect my time - and theirs.

    People that have a bunch of "limitations" that stop them believing anyone can help them, stops them from learning things that could put them in a different income bracket, well I am not a "life coach" so they aren't my clients.

    It comes down to perspective and what people want to learn and value learning!
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  12. LeelaCosgrove

    LeelaCosgrove Member

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    Judgment is cool when it comes from a place of knowledge and experience.

    When you make judgments based on assumptions ... well you know what they say about ass-u-ming.

    It's good to not accept everything at face value - to question stuff.

    But assuming all marketers and salespeople are spinning crap ...

    Well - good luck with the whole running a business thing. All businesses are sales and marketing businesses. If you're not willing to market or sell because everyone who does that is spinning crap ...

    Like I say.

    Good luck.
  13. dan

    dan Guest

    I never said all.

    I give an opinion. You don't like it so you hit back with a "well see ya you later loser" type condescending remark. How nice!

    So yes it's true... I will never be the sales queen you are. But you will never be the creative I am. That doesn't give me an excuse to beat you up on it. Sales people could do with a little less talk & attitude and a lot more listening and understanding. But ofcourse that's just one opinion.
  14. LeelaCosgrove

    LeelaCosgrove Member

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    I've won 4 short story awards. 2 of them international.

    :)
  15. THE SALES WARLORD

    THE SALES WARLORD Member

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    "Which is why i'm quite dubious about people who are coaches, marketers, motivational speakers and the like. They spin a lot of crap and try to sell you the "dream", making lots of promises. And of course everyone has a pushy salesperson story they remember."

    Dan, that's US you're talking about, that's MY industry you're talking about.

    And while there may be some good and bad in EVERY industry - its just RUDE to make such sweeping generalisations.

    And it's hurtful to my business to have people running around shooting that kind of negative crap at us.

    That's our BUSINESS your attacking there mate.

    So how would you feel if someone said that about YOUR business / industry?

    You started that one mate.

    If you don't like the reaction look at what you wrote?

    If I said (and this is not my view) "I am quite dubious about designers because they are a bunch of pot smoking flakes and have no idea about sales and they are basically negative self hating parasites who feed off real business and have no useful purpose" you would probably think I was being an ass.

    But that's pretty much what you did.

    We take that kind of thing personally because it SOUNDS personal.

    So maybe you should apologize?
  16. dan

    dan Guest

    Not the sort of creative i'm talking about.
  17. LeelaCosgrove

    LeelaCosgrove Member

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    Of course it's not.
  18. dan

    dan Guest

    Well aware of that...

    I said it once... so i'm hardly making a campaign out of it.

    lol...

    No argument there...

    Nope. I wouldn't take you seriously.

    Designers get criticized all the time over their work. It's part & parcel of the job so it's water off a ducks back to me.

    Maybe you shouldn't take everything to heart. If you want to change my view about your industry, then i'm all ears. But if you just want to hit back with sharp comments like Leela to make me feel bad, then nothing changes.
  19. THE SALES WARLORD

    THE SALES WARLORD Member

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    Dan I guess I can afford for you to remain unconvinced about sales and marketing.

    But I doubt you can.
  20. LeelaCosgrove

    LeelaCosgrove Member

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    Urr ... by your own admission, you're the one who said I was full of crap and lying and selling the dream without delivering. Without ever having met me or had anything to do with my business ...

    I just said you have some limiting beliefs.

    Because you do.

    But whatever dude ... your business, your life.

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