Site designers advertising on client's sites

[clintmaher]

If we sell direct to public we'll put a link in the footer. If they want it removed no problem, it's gone.

If we sell to a reseller, then we'll just put the end clients name in there.

After delivering hundreds of websites have not once been asked to remove it from a retail customer.

If we deliver a really awesome website I'll even come past and sign the bottom right of your monitor.

[MatthewKeath]

Originally Posted by T J Madigan

Just be honest about what you are doing and why you are doing it.

Oh dear. TJ - it might be time to stop with the insults.

If you can't make your point without insulting people, then a public forum is probably not for you.

BTW, I never use SEO links. Just Designed by Smashing.

[T J Madigan]

Originally Posted by MatthewKeath

Oh dear. TJ - it might be time to stop with the insults.

If you can't make your point without insulting people, then a public forum is probably not for you.

BTW, I never use SEO links. Just Designed by Smashing.

Here we go again...
Was I talking to you MatthewKeath??
Did you say it was your artists signature??

You tried to pick a fight yesterday by claiming I had insulted you yesterday too...

Chill out bro... and stop trying to pick fights with me.

I just don't like people trying to pull the wool over people's eyes by BS'ing about well known industry practices (again, this is not addressed at you - unless you are claiming your link is your artist's signature). If I get shot down for calling a spade a spade, then so be it. Doesn't change the fact that a spade is still a spade.

You have accused me of calling you unethical twice in this thread (which I did not). The first time I mentioned ethical was not directed at you (you were not even part of this thread at the time) and the second time was when I tried to tell you that I was not calling you unethical and you accused me of it again.

And now you accuse me of being insulting again. I find it insulting that people expect us to believe their BS.

Lighten up MatthewKeath.

[marketingweb]

Originally Posted by T J Madigan

Here we go again...
Was I talking to you MatthewKeath??
Did you say it was your artists signature??

You tried to pick a fight yesterday by claiming I had insulted you yesterday too...

Chill out bro... and stop trying to pick fights with me.

I just don't like people trying to pull the wool over people's eyes by BS'ing about well known industry practices (again, this is not addressed at you - unless you are claiming your link is your artist's signature). If I get shot down for calling a spade a spade, then so be it. Doesn't change the fact that a spade is still a spade.

Ok TJ, so you aren't calling MatthewKeath dishonest, you are calling ME dishonest, and accusing me of "BSing" as I was the the one who addressed this - either way, not cool! I am NOT BSing, I DID work in the print industry for almost 7 years and have experience with what I was talking about. And i've been on this forum for over 2 years, have almost 500 posts, and a good reputation for helping people, so please don't accuse me of "pulling the wool over people's eyes" which is basically akin to calling me a liar.

This isn't going anywhere, but just wanted to be clear. I'm NOT saying i'm an artist or comparable to someone who paints a portrait. Nor am I saying i'm a manufacturer, comparable to Victa mowers (another example I used). All i'm saying is that both manufacturers and creative industries have traditionally signed off their work, as a way of giving an answer to people who say "wow that's cool where can I get me one of those"? I then provided examples of when this signoff is considered appropriate (eg a large multi page document), and when it is not (a business card).

To answer your main criticism re SEO, here is my stated position, just so you cannot suggest i'm trying to claim otherwise:

- Do I think there is SEO benefit - yes I do, although not a big amount.
- Do I try to take advantage of this - yes, I do, but in a way that doesn't detract from the design. I don't see why there needs to be a "moral high ground" against that.
- Is SEO it my main reason for putting it there - no, of course not. My two main reasons are to "sign off" on something i'm proud of, and to generate new work from humans (not search engines) who like the site and "want me one of those".

Most clients I have specifically mentioned it to, and have as a minimum in all cases shown them a draft with it included.
Times that a client has specifically said something like the following "I love it, I'm glad you have put a link back to your site so you can get more business -
can you put it on your portfolio as well?" = 4 I can think of.
Total times i've been asked to remove one by a client = 0

Based on the above it's a non issue to me with my clients (remembering my policy is to do it with design work only, NOT with SEO only jobs). So given that it's not a customer issue that i'm facing in my business I think i've spent enough time on this.

Matt

[MatthewKeath]

Originally Posted by marketingweb

can you put it on your portfolio as well?" = 4 I can think of

Awesome, I didn't think of that.

I generate a small amount of traffic from having a link in my portfolio, which is good for the client. Plus there might be a very small SEO benefit for them

TJ seems to love getting into blues with people on FS, so I am with you when you say enough is enough. TJ keep fighting the good fight

[T J Madigan]

Originally Posted by marketingweb

To answer your main criticism re SEO, here is my stated position, just so you cannot suggest i'm trying to claim otherwise:

It was not meant as a criticism. I stated it as a fact. Sorry if you took it as a criticism.

Originally Posted by marketingweb

- Do I think there is SEO benefit - yes I do, although not a big amount.
- Do I try to take advantage of this - yes, I do, but in a way that doesn't detract from the design. I don't see why there needs to be a "moral high ground" against that.
- Is SEO it my main reason for putting it there - no, of course not. My two main reasons are to "sign off" on something i'm proud of, and to generate new work from humans (not search engines) who like the site and "want me one of those".

Hooray...!
Finally... The REAL reason for putting a link there.

Thank you. So the artist stuff was just fluff wasn't it.

P.S. marketingweb. My comment wasn't directed at you either as the 'artist's signature' defence didn't originate with you. You just ran with it and elaborated on it. Funny how everybody is 'wanting' to be the one I 'insulted'. It's a sad world when asking somebody to "Just be honest about what you are doing and why you are doing it" marks you as an insulting trouble maker.

Anyway. Thank you. You have been honest in this post and shared your real motivation for putting your link on the bottom of your clients pages.

That wasn't so hard was it...?

All I asked was that people be honest about why they put the link there.
And thank you marketingweb for your honesty.

There really was no need for anybody to equate it with being an artist's signature on a great work of art, while sidestepping the real reasons. It's a contextual link. It is there for advertising purposes to let people know who built the site in the hope of generating more leads for the web designer with the added SEO benefit of a contextual keyword link.

Nowhere have I said it is wrong to do that. I choose not to. Simple as that.
All I asked was "Just be honest about what you are doing and why you are doing it."

Plain and simple.

[marketingweb]

Originally Posted by T J Madigan

Hooray...!
Finally... The REAL reason for putting a link there.

Thank you. So the artist stuff was just fluff wasn't it.

Comprehension isn't your strong point, is it. Manufacturing and creative industries have both long signed off on work either with their name or the company name, as a way of identifying the creator, for all sorts of reason. I don't see why you think this is fluff, but I won't bother rehashing all my arguments there.

Originally Posted by T J Madigan

Anyway. Thank you. You have been honest in this post and shared your real motivation for putting your link on the bottom of your clients pages.

That wasn't so hard was it...?

I have been honest in ALL my posts thankyou very much. How dare you insinuate that i've finally been honest and were thus not before by saying "that wasn't so hard was it". I have not changed my position at all, I just felt I needed to spell it out to you because you weren't "getting it".

Matt

[T J Madigan]

Originally Posted by marketingweb

Comprehension isn't your strong point, is it. Manufacturing and creative industries have both long signed off on work either with their name or the company name, as a way of identifying the creator, for all sorts of reason. I don't see why you think this is fluff, but I won't bother rehashing all my arguments there.



I have been honest in ALL my posts thankyou very much. How dare you insinuate that i've finally been honest and were thus not before by saying "that wasn't so hard was it". I have not changed my position at all, I just felt I needed to spell it out to you because you weren't "getting it".

Matt

What the ...??

I apologized for the fact that you took what I said as a criticism...
Explained that my previous comments weren't directed at you...
I thanked you for being honest...
And you still want to fight...???

Have I entered the Freaking Twilight Zone...???

[marketingweb]

....takes deep breath. Shakes head. Walks away.

[nominal]

An interesting thread, lol...

Let me give a note from the client perspective. I've done the website about 4 times in the past couple of years.

In the single time when the designer put their link on my website. I have simply removed it as soon as the site was done. I didn't want to ask them about it - simply wanted it removed.

It is my website, my domain, my hosting and my business and I don't see a need to promote other businesses without me choosing to do so.

I don't think you should put a link there without asking first. But it's no big deal.

If you really want to see how many people have a problem with it. Go back to ALL the websites you ever designed and see how many REMOVED the link (assuming they know how). This will give you an indication of how they really feel about it.