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October 29, 2016 at 6:29 pm #1198360
I don’t think you’re taking the thread off track – we’re discussing some SEO stuff.
What I was referring to is your judgement call: “good to see some of our SEO guru’s taken to task by people who actually know what they are talking about”
I honestly don’t give a hoot if you’re a nun, undertaker or a gardener, I’m asking why you say that?
Who knows or does not know what they are talking about and why do you think so?
Why not give us the benefit of your knowledge on why Masha, John, HG or myself are wrong in your opinion?
Any references to good authority sources like Google or a respected long serving SEO would be good to read. (I mean the Slawski’s, Kohn’s and Martinez’s of this world, not the tabloid SEO press – they’re often as wrong as the newspaper tabloids!)October 29, 2016 at 10:38 pm #1198361bb1Participant
Aidan, post: 240578, member: 2298 wrote:Why not give us the benefit of your knowledge on why Masha, John, HG or myself are wrong in your opinion?
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Firstly admins, feel free to delete this post, like I assume Aidan”s Post last night was, I will not make any comments on that post. I will just answer the question in this post.
To answer your question above , I am not sure I have suggested any of the 3 you mentioned (or yourself for that matter) are wrong. Asking questions and seeking to clarify the issues at hand doesn’t mean you are saying someone is wrong.
From my reading of this debate we have differing views offered , surely in that instance questions can only benefit the debate, in particular for small business owners such as myself who are on a daily basis, being asked to cough up hard earned dollars for SEO services.
As an example JohnW used an example of plumbers rankings which all sounded fine, but there was a question left hanging in my mind about the reasoning behind his comments, I asked a question based on direct experience from my own website, and what I know some of my competitors have done. So I asked the question, to which JohnW offered a compelling answer. Just because I asked a question it didn’t mean I thought he was wrong, he may be 100% correct, totally wrong or somewhere in between, without going and asking each individual website owner about their intent of each and every action over the last couple of years, we don’t know.
I don’t know the relative skills of any of the 3 you mention or yourself, and no where have I actually stated that any off them are more correct or more knowledgeable than the other. I know who I would be approaching if and when I want some services (based on what I read from your posts) but I suspect I may ask to many questions when I come knocking at the door.Aidan, post: 240578, member: 2298 wrote:Which has always been my point – I would never question your skills as a gardener for the same reason, I’m simply devoid of enough knowledge to say anything about gardening.
I always hope my clients will question my skills as a gardener and in fact I am more than happy to point out my short comings (there are many). Our clients deserve to know what level of knowledge we bring to the table.
There are many shonky gardeners around, you must question!!!Aidan, post: 240578, member: 2298 wrote:I am completely in your hands for that stuff just as I am in my car mechanic’s hands for the cars, my accountant’s hands for the tax, my plumber’s hands for the plumbing and I could go on… I’m not qualified to argue with any of them.
I don’t argue with my mechanic or plumber or whatever either, but if they are going to present me with a very large bill for work or advise which may impact on my car or plumbing, I will sure as anything ask them questions, not just hand them a blank cheque and say sure go for it. And just to give myself a little piece of mind I tend to use specialists registered with their industry body, that doesn’t mean they are correct, but it gives a better level of comfort.
In my case if I give someone a quote or advise, I invite them to ask questions, I don’t see that as an argument, I even suggest to them that they seek further quotes and advise, I have even been known to suggest some questions they should be asking for there own benefit.October 29, 2016 at 11:12 pm #1198362bb1, post: 240524, member: 53375 wrote:It is good to see some of our SEO guru’s taken to task by people who actually know what they are talking about rather than my feeble attempts.
I am developing a strong feeling that I was remiss in not removing the above comment because it did not offer supporting evidence and the term “taken to task” in the context used here infers that “our SEO guru’s” do not know their subject matter.
Ultimately, it is a provocative point of view without foundation that will (and has) generated angry responses and taken the thread off-track (again).
I erred in leaving the comment up and apologise to those affected.October 30, 2016 at 12:47 am #1198363
Thank you Paul, it is indeed that comment from Bert which is so inflammatory as it does inescapably convey that Bert believes some of us do not know what we are talking about and he is in a position to judge who.
Bert, of course you’re free to ask questions as I do myself within reason. I don’t however try to judge my mechanic or plumber in their technical knowledge as I am simply not able to judge because of my lack of knowledge in those areas.
If you’ve followed this discussion all the way along you would know that even Fishkin himself does not consider CTR a factor or at least no longer does, what little faith he had in it was shattered by Andrey Lipattsev of Google in the March Q&A.
No doubt this week he has been reconsidering his theory on Domain Authority too following confirmation from Google that they don’t actually have such a concept!
Which raises the point – if you’re looking for info on optimisation be careful of the sources you trust, if you’re going with the ‘tabloid’ SEO sites be aware that what you’re reading there is not necessarily always correct! Look instead to the higher authorities and particularly Google and read those statements carefully, there can be a huge difference in the meanings of sentences if you change just one word.
If you get the chance to talk to a Google engineer personally grab it – they’re not going to give away the farm but they can usually settle an argument. I had one debunk bounce rates as a good metric when folks were going nuts about its supposed importance. While you’ve got them, ask them what they think of the popular SEO websites, you’ll get a laugh out of it.
For other SEO people who might read this – I still like the quick feel that DA can help give me, much the same as the Majestic metrics, CF and TF can help give a quick feel of a search landscape – but I know enough to know that they are not even remotely the same as how Google models Pagerank. They’re just another stab at getting some kinds of measurements to work with when we don’t have the real Google data. They are easily manipulated and often are in some industries. Treat with great caution.October 30, 2016 at 2:09 am #1198364
I this framework I have put together for another post – see: http://www.flyingsolo.com.au/forums/index.php?threads/an-article-i-enjoyed-maybe-you-will-too.40241/#post-240572
“To help cut through the noise, I suggest at least starting with very clear ideas around:
- Ask the question, “What is my business objective?”
- What are the possible strategies to help me achieve my goals
- Of the strategies I have identified, which will help me meet my objectives in the most efficient way (especially in regards to cost and timelines)
- After initial research seek out professionals that provide evidence around the results they get, their experience, their qualifications,processes they use and ask for references from customers with similar objectives to you. Check in with those customers. Ask them if the promises made have been kept, are they satisfied with the results the provider has achieved. Have the results helped you achieve your business goals etc
- Google the business name and the principal’s name. Use the word complaints or scams etc next to both. Check Linkedin profiles.
- Ask the providers questions 1 and 2 and 3 above.
- If it is a solo operator, assess the quality of person you are dealing with and there commitment to give value – if they have similar qualities to other providers you have had good experiences with in other fields, you can have more confidence in them.
- If it is a firm, ask who will be doing the work, what their qualifications and experience is and what quality systems are in place. Assess the firm on the basis of their track record of success.
From the same post. “And the article you linked to is an example of learning about what I call Big Red Flags. In internet marketing, paid traffic, link farms and blog networks are amongst my personal Big Red Flags.”
I would love to hear some views around weather participants feel this is a good starting point for researching providers.October 30, 2016 at 4:30 am #1198365
Hi Paul, that’s good advice for most small businesses but why would paid traffic be a red flag in internet marketing? AdWords for example and Facebook ads too are often sound strategy for achieving the goals of a great many businesses?
I agree with the other red flags (though I doubt most people here would have any idea how to identify a blog network and the agencies who use them are not likely to advertise it).October 30, 2016 at 7:22 am #1198366Aidan, post: 240593, member: 2298 wrote:Hi Paul, that’s good advice for most small businesses but why would paid traffic be a red flag in internet marketing? AdWords for example and Facebook ads too are often sound strategy for achieving the goals of a great many businesses?
I agree with the other red flags (though I doubt most people here would have any idea how to identify a blog network and the agencies who use them are not likely to advertise it).
I wasn’t referring to paid traffic from Adwords, FB, Linkedin etc but what is essentially “fake” traffic from unknown sources (maybe bots?). What is the name for that? See the original link reference https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/linkedin-articles-i-have-article-thats-been-viewed-nearly-mallyon?trk=prof-postOctober 31, 2016 at 7:30 am #1198367JohnWMember
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The foregoing may have been misinterpreted as an attack on Aidan. I’m sure it was not meant that way but I felt compelled to ensure no FS arrived at that misconception.
I want to offer my unreserved recommendation for Aidan and his knowledge of SEO and SEM.
I’m all but retired now but if I get asked about on-going SEO services by any Sydney-based business, I now recommend Aidan. No money changing hands here, it’s simply a measure of my respect for the man and his knowledge.
I think we first “met” across an FS post around 2010 and in all the intervening time, I believe we have only met twice in person.
Assessing anyone’s info about SEO being accurate is fraught with difficulties because most of the info published about SEO is inaccurate or out of date.
It can be expensive if you take bad SEO advice and bad advice seems to be the norm rather than the exception.
Eg: SE Round Table is one of the longest running SEO Newsletters on the web. It’s been around since 2003. It ran surveys over two years to explore how many SEOs had hurt their clients with bad link building tactics. Its poll results:Apr 2013: SE Round Table reader’s poll
“In fact, our polls (very scientific ones) said 65% of SEOs were impacted by the update. And our polls also show that 94% didn’t fully recover from the Penguin update”
Apr 2014: SE Round Table – “70% Said Google’s Penguin 2.1 Update Hurt Them”
“We had over 2,800 responses to the poll, and 70% said they saw a drop in Google referrer traffic after the update. So 70% seemed to have been negatively impacted by it. While only 7%, or just about 200 people, reported their sites recovered from a previous Penguin update”
So FSs, what do you do about it? My quick cull suggestions…
If Aust. small businesses are researching SEO services they should be exploring these supplier’s attributes:
- Experience in SEO research, planning, implementation and monitoring.
- Experience of SEO in Australia with Australian search markets.
The latter is a most critical aspect of SEO yet few people seem to realise this.
Here are some tips to help you very quickly create a shortlist that culls out many SEO pretenders and which shortlist you can then explore in more detail.
1. What they say about themselves?
Their website: Examples of clients. What sorts of industries have they worked on, where were they located, is there enough info to identify and phone clients for more detailed discussions.
Their LinkedIn profile: Does their LinkedIn profile match the website claims? You may be surprised at how often an SEO website gives one impression and a LinkedIn profile another.
It is not unusual to find a LinkedIn profile inferring that SEO expertise is essentially a sideline for some other mainline business.
You want to look at their experience pathway to becoming a full time SEO. How long is the relevant experience pathway?
2. What do others say about them?
The best example on FS is to explore an SEO member’s history.
How many posts, likes, trophy points have they achieved. More importantly, check their old post history. That’s how I initially got to know and repect Aidan.
Eg. If you run my now discontinued website through it (http://www.aimit.com.au), you can find the old 2007-2014 site design and previous versions dating back to 1999.
Not pretty sites (or sights), I know but at least you can track the businesses’ continuity as recorded by a third party.
You can look up some old client references and info about the bus. owner’s claimed experience.
I can’t recommend this research tool highly enough. There are huge numbers of people throwing their hats into the SEO expert ring these days. It seems there are many overseas businesses setting up local SEO promotional “fronts” using students and all manner of inexperienced locals.
Wayback is a great way to cull out novice SEO services. I.e. Set your self a minimum of say, 6 years SEO experience and see how many can’t pass this simple cull test.
JohnWOctober 31, 2016 at 9:30 am #1198368
Wow, I don’t know what to say to that other than thank you! That is embarrassingly high praise when it comes from you sir – I hope I can continue to live up to it!
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