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  • #978809
    My Wedding Concierge
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    I’m sure many of you saw the segment last night on how easy it is to have an app designed. It was a really interested piece and I’m sure will inspire many people to have a go which is excellent.

    However in watching the segment. the sticking point for me is exactly how to go about locating an off-shore app developer to help create the App, without getting ripped off sending money to some dodgy scam artist.

    I think it would be great to create an app or two, but personally I would need a very strong recommendation from somebody I trusted before sending money off-shore.

    #1109652
    jacksonalsop
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    My Wedding Concierge, post: 122075 wrote:
    I’m sure many of you saw the segment last night on how easy it is to have an app designed. It was a really interested piece and I’m sure will inspire many people to have a go which is excellent.

    However in watching the segment. the sticking point for me is exactly how to go about locating an off-shore app developer to help create the App, without getting ripped off sending money to some dodgy scam artist.

    I think it would be great to create an app or two, but personally I would need a very strong recommendation from somebody I trusted before sending money off-shore.

    Heya,

    I was actually a little annoyed with that segment. They made it out like developing an app was “so easy anybody can do it”, but the fact is it still needs to be coded, and with programming you get what you pay for.

    If you’re after a simple application that’s nothing complex, you can find many off-shore developers through sites like oDesk or Elance. Though I really do have to recommend finding an established development agency for anything beyond the realm of fart apps and “flip a coin” games like the one presented last night.

    Yes, it will cost considerably more to work with an agency or experienced freelancer, but their expertise is definitely worth the money. Programming, though generally a geeky pursuit, is an art and like any skill there will be people who are better at it than others. In my experience, off-shore developers are cheap but are not exceptional coders.

    Hope that helps!

    #1109653
    Uncomplicating
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    jacksonalsop, post: 122078 wrote:
    Programming, though generally a geeky pursuit, is an art and like any skill there will be people who are better at it than others. In my experience, off-shore developers are cheap but are not exceptional coders.

    The major stumbling block in the world of software development has always been, and will continue to be, the conversion of user requirements to executable code.

    In simple terms, programmers need either explicit, unequivocal instructions as to what they’re making or they need a very good understanding of the subject matter. In both cases, they need to continually communicate with the client and undertake a repetitive and often frustrating review cycle.

    Try to imagine what’s going to happen when off shore developers who are typically run-of-the-mill programmers with almost no understanding of your vision, and a level of English that is nothing like yours, get given a specification written by someone with no experience of software design or computer systems beyond using a PC/Mac.

    Any result that isn’t a shambles is going to be more by luck than judgement.

    It’s hard enough to get a good result when you do have a good level of experience and you work with good quality developers whose skills go beyond the comparatively simple act of actually writing the code itself.

    But, dismal as that may sound, if your pockets are deep enough you can pay some guys and get a result, and you too can own an app.

    And for every day after that, you can pray that nothing needs modifying, because that’s when the costs can really start to pile up.

    #1109654
    Ally M
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    Ok, I missed the piece on 60 minutes but that explains why since last night all the jobs I’ve received via Service Seeking (I’m just trying it out) are for people wanting apps.
    :rolleyes:

    #1109655
    Matt Olde
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    Good advice Jackson and Stewart. I’ll throw my 2 cents in.

    I’ve come into projects in shambles from offshore teams mainly from bad communication. And these are bigger companies like BigW. It ends up taking longer and costing more then originally planned in my experience with off shoring projects.

    #1109656
    John C.
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    Yes it was an interesting segment, and I know it has already prompted people with no App development experience to think about delving into it – I had 3 phone calls today from friends and acquaintances asking me whether I know how to develop an App (obviously because I know about computers.. and stuff!).

    I just saw a job posted to Service Seeking – “An app that can estimate a person’s height by taking a photo or scanning them.” – good on em for wanting to have a go, but I think a lot of people will now underestimate the effort involved in getting an app like that developed.

    Quite a lot of people like the guy interviewed last night made a lot of money from easy and gimmicky apps like the fart app shown, but I think that bubble has burst to a great extent. From now on I think there will still be opportunity to make a lot of money, but the successful apps will need to have a lot more thought put into them and deliver a lot more value – there’s only so many fart apps that people will be willing to buy!

    #1109657
    John C.
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    jacksonalsop, post: 122078 wrote:
    In my experience, off-shore developers are cheap but are not exceptional coders.

    I think there are some very exceptional coders off-shore, just that those exceptional coders don’t often hang out on sites where the average hourly rate is less than $10! Just like the most talented programmers in Australia probably don’t hang out on Service Seeking. It has little to do with the fact that they are or aren’t off-shore.

    #1109658
    jacksonalsop
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    onsiteTECHS, post: 122100 wrote:
    I think there are some very exceptional coders off-shore, just that those exceptional coders don’t often hang out on sites where the average hourly rate is less than $10! Just like the most talented programmers in Australia probably don’t hang out on Service Seeking. It has little to do with the fact that they are or aren’t off-shore.

    Good point!

    What I meant to say was that the type of offshore developer that we’re talking about in the context of this conversation (the $6 p/hour dev from India) are generally pretty crappy coders.

    I didn’t mean to imply that good developers can’t be found overseas! But you do have to admit that, most of the time, when there’s a discussion about offshore developers, we are generally referring to the top of dev I described above :P

    #1109659
    John C.
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    jacksonalsop, post: 122101 wrote:
    Good point!

    What I meant to say was that the type of offshore developer that we’re talking about in the context of this conversation (the $6 p/hour dev from India) are generally pretty crappy coders.

    I didn’t mean to imply that good developers can’t be found overseas! But you do have to admit that, most of the time, when there’s a discussion about offshore developers, we are generally referring to the top of dev I described above :P

    Yes it’s true that when most people refer to offshore developers they actually mean cheap developers, and I knew that’s what you meant too. I just thought it was important to clarify for people who may not realise that’s what you meant!

    I know there are some talented people from overseas who read this forum, and I’d hate to think that they get the impression us Aussies think less of their talent just because they live overseas.

    Cheers,
    John

    #1109660
    JohnSheppard
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    IMO 60 minutes is rarely useful viewing or an authority on quality/useful journalism…I dare say it’s probably even damaging for your eyes to watch it :)

    Why do businesses want apps anyway? What purpose? Why hasn’t that need already been solved 10 years ago?

    #1109661
    John C.
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    JohnSheppard, post: 122105 wrote:
    IMO 60 minutes is rarely useful viewing or an authority on quality/useful journalism…I dare say it’s probably even damaging for your eyes to watch it :)

    Why do businesses want apps anyway? What purpose? Why hasn’t that need already been solved 10 years ago?

    Following last night’s episode, most people’s need will be to make $3.5m in profit while sitting on a beach! lol

    #1109662
    Gavin_S
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    I think finding the right developer offshore can be just as difficult as finding a decent developer here in Australia. Getting an app developed is every bit as easy as it was portrayed to be on 60 Minutes (provided you take the time to find a suitably qualified person, and you take the time to brief them well on your expectations… if you have the money you can get anything built).
    The disappointing part of the story was that they didn’t even touch on the one thing that that will cause 99% of people who launch apps to fail…
    Once you’ve created your app, how do you promote it?
    Last time I checked there was over 420,000 apps in the Android market, and over 70% of those were free. The App store I believe has over 620,000 apps and around 45% of those are free.
    With over 1 million apps out there, that’s a lot of competition.

    #1109663
    BrettM33
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    Didn’t see the story but gonna have to try and find it now. But from the sounds of it it’s the last thing the development world needed, people already want something for nothing and now this is just gonna make things worse.

    #1109664
    Uncomplicating
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    JohnSheppard, post: 122105 wrote:
    Why do businesses want apps anyway? What purpose? Why hasn’t that need already been solved 10 years ago?

    Browsers, as the name suggests, were never intended to be much more than a means of viewing static data sent to a PC. But over time, we’ve found ingenious ways of making them jump through hoops to be so much more e.g. Flash.

    These solutions are ok, but they’re fundamentally limited by the capabilities of the browser itself and the languages they support. And, just about everything you see on the screen has to be downloaded each time. Browsers will use some caching, but as the HTML is often generated as part of the request, that’s only going to go so far, and often leads to horrid compatibility issues. This is when you see phrases like, “you need to clear your cache and delete any cookies”

    Apps on the other hand are self contained and once downloaded really only ever move data/images backwards and forwards. They are installed applications, like word, excel etc., and that grants them access to all of the features of the device being used e.g. Windows Registry and hard drive, security considerations notwithstanding.

    So, basic rule of thumb. Browsers are good for millions of users but relatively low functionality; apps are good for smaller numbers of users but much greater functionality. For business this makes complete sense.

    #1109665
    jacksonalsop
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    JohnSheppard, post: 122105 wrote:
    IMO 60 minutes is rarely useful viewing or an authority on quality/useful journalism…I dare say it’s probably even damaging for your eyes to watch it :)

    Why do businesses want apps anyway? What purpose? Why hasn’t that need already been solved 10 years ago?

    I think the focus of the report wasn’t on businesses making apps, but making businesses out of apps.

    They mightn’t be useful for many existing businesses, but you can’t deny that there is a huge (though definitely over saturated) market out there for mobile applications, especially on iOS.

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