Home – New Forums Tech talk Another website without Analytics?

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  • #1117139
    Shane Walker
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    Hi LemonChip! It’s Shane Walker here.

    From a SEO point of view, I often wonder as to web designers that constantly optimise pages on website for the terms “welcome to our website” and expect the client to be able to get business from that.

    I think there is a lot of web designers out there that don’t understand the basics. They may know a bit about graphic design but they don’t seem to know much about how the web and websites actually work.

    Regards,

    #1117140
    websitedesigner
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    +1 to Aidan’s comment. AWstats suck though and if the client cares at all about stats then they should have analytics. Btw this is the problem I am trying to address in my startup. Clients do care but they don’t understand the information and don’t want to proactively log in and check stats all the time.

    #1117141
    websitedesigner
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    Btw Shane just a tip, your name shows up on each of your posts as well as your signature so effectively 3 times every time you post. Just thought I’d mention that. I’m not sure if you can see it at your end.

    #1117143
    Zava Design
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    Pawpost, post: 133598 wrote:
    I am starting up a web based business, my first, and there are about 100 things that are “simple” to designers and seo specialist, marketing professionals and so on… To me, and maybe other first time e-business owners, it makes your head spin… So I can see why something like GA can be passed on.

    I have set it up on my site, and the initial set up does take a few minutes, but then I have to learn a brand new system, on top of all the other aspects of starting a business. I think it can be daunting to some. I mean there are a lot of new things you must learn: webmaster tools, GA, and the equivalent over at BING…quite a bit for us newbies.

    Also, in the beginning, analytics seems useless, because you don’t have the traffic yet, there is nothing to report… If you don’t build traffic fast enough, I can see how some people will just let it slip out of their routine.

    All that said, I still think it is worth while to have an analytic software if you are going online. And useful for a professional to at least mention to their clients.
    Hence why there are professionals to engage who do know all this.

    I held off for years engaging a regular cleaner for my apartment. But then I realised that in the time saved from engaging a cleaner I could make far more income than I was spending on the cleaner, it became a bit of a no brainer. ;)

    #1117145
    Divert To Mobile
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    websitedesigner, post: 135034 wrote:
    btw shane just a tip, your name shows up on each of your posts as well as your signature so effectively 3 times every time you post. Just thought i’d mention that. I’m not sure if you can see it at your end.

    lol

    #1117146
    Divert To Mobile
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    websitedesigner, post: 135033 wrote:
    +1 to Aidan’s comment. AWstats suck though and if the client cares at all about stats then they should have analytics. Btw this is the problem I am trying to address in my startup. Clients do care but they don’t understand the information and don’t want to proactively log in and check stats all the time.

    Some of us old timers (including my self) have taken our sweet time to discover the benefits of GA but we were analysing our sites before GA was invented.
    Please lets not trash AWStats, It was released about 10 years ago and was the only thing we had besides click counters. OMG remember those?

    Steve

    #1117147
    Stuart B
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    Nikita, post: 131629 wrote:
    There are several reasons:

    What if the client doesn’t require GA? What if they are planning to use other more sophisticated tracking tools?

    On the other hand – Why not to include SEO, register for Google places, create Social Media accounts, integrate sharing buttons, create SEM campaign with every new website?

    The answer is simple:
    a. No need
    b. Client is not prepared to pay – 2 minutes that will require you to do that task also come from years of your experience. Always remember that – it takes 15 minutes and 10 years experience.

    Nikita did you read the original post because this isn’t the issue. Of course, if the client says “oh no i have my own stats program I want to use” obviously I’m not saying you should force them into GA etc. The point was that so many people have NOTHING. And it’s not a matter of if they’ll use it or not, but what happens when they come to the day when they DO need it because they want to do some SEO, do some other marketing and monitor the changes, and they have NOTHING being tracked. No reference point to gauge if marketing activities are having an impact, or if it’s just standard activity.

    It doesn’t matter if they use it or not, or they think they don’t need it, because long term there’s a strong chance that at some point they will need it.

    bluepenguin, post: 131690 wrote:
    I agree with the comments above. Many of our clients will never touch GA, and about 2 minutes per working day = about 8 hours per year.

    I’d rather set it up for people who want it, and take a day off.

    Are you really creating 240 web sites each year?

    Don’t you think that when a client comes to you with a website you built for them, and says I want to do some SEO and you think “oh dammit I wish I had some stats to look at to see how things are performing now” don’t you think that would make you want to install it for them as a matter of course?

    Surely if nothing else it gives you an opportunity to provide better service to them in the future you would think it would be worth 2 minutes of your time?

    Of course we can draw silly arguments and say things like “why don’t we include SEO, why not include a facebook page” blah blah, in my oppinion these are fairly thin excuses for not including something in a website which should be there every single time. Remember:

    – It’s free
    – It takes 2 minutes to install
    – It will help your clients in the future
    – And probably make you more money too

    If you’re pumping out so many web sites that the 2 minutes needed to install GA is stealing days away from you, then those are pretty good problems to have, and you should be making enough money that 2 minutes per project is just good housekeeping.

    I dunno maybe I AM wrong or in the minority but for me installing GA is just a box that gets ticked off at the end of a project along with chaning DNS, uploading files, and creating email addresses. For me I view it as a more of a duty of care for my clients, lol but I dunno maybe I should take a step away from customer service or something :confused:

    #1117148
    Zava Design
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    LemonChip Web Design, post: 135099 wrote:
    Don’t you think that when a client comes to you with a website you built for them, and says I want to do some SEO and you think “oh dammit I wish I had some stats to look at to see how things are performing now” don’t you think that would make you want to install it for them as a matter of course?

    – It’s free
    – It takes 2 minutes to install
    – It will help your clients in the future
    – And probably make you more money too
    100% agree. If you’re building sites and not adding GA by default you’re dong both yourself and your client a disservice.

    #1117149
    Aidan
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    Can’t say I agree it should be done by default anymore than setting up Google and Bing Webmaster Tools, or offering free classes in online marketing, or…

    Where do you draw the line? Should we all do the copy writing? Should we all offer free conversion optimisation? How much should we all charge for our various packages?

    Most if not all will install GA on request, often without charge. I just cannot see any justification for saying it should be done by default especially if its unlikely to be used – that would be bad business practice (in the sense it is wasted time).

    My two cents

    #1117150
    Gordan
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    Some websites simply dont need GA, Webmaster tools is enough.

    #1117151
    MatthewKeath
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    Aidan, post: 135290 wrote:
    Can’t say I agree it should be done by default anymore than setting up Google and Bing Webmaster Tools, or offering free classes in online marketing, or…

    Where do you draw the line? Should we all do the copy writing? Should we all offer free conversion optimisation? How much should we all charge for our various packages?

    Most if not all will install GA on request, often without charge. I just cannot see any justification for saying it should be done by default especially if its unlikely to be used – that would be bad business practice (in the sense it is wasted time).

    My two centsI set up Analytics and both webmaster tools in every project and put the cost of time taken into the project. So I don’t lose. If the client doesn’t use them, that’s their choice, but at least they ate their. I also add myself as a user, so if needed I can quickly access them.

    #1117152
    Craig_Longmuir
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    If the client will use then yes add them. It takes 5 minutes so no extra charges…but many clients really don’t care to use such a tool even when things are explained so often no point …

    #1117153
    Pawpost
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    Scrooge, post: 135044 wrote:
    Hi just a heads up, I would first thing Monday morning get hold of a web guy and have a simple landing page created for your domain name, what you currently have there could do more harm than good in lost opportunity before you actually launch.

    Thanks for the heads up. I had a heck of a time last week with the server…for some reason all my databases just disappeared while I slept… so the landing page was going between fatal error, can not find “some code” and the likes.

    Got it sorted out, so the landing page should be back up.

    #1117154
    JohnW
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    Divert To Mobile, post: 135074 wrote:
    Some of us old timers (including my self) have taken our sweet time to discover the benefits of GA but we were analysing our sites before GA was invented.
    Please lets not trash AWStats, It was released about 10 years ago and was the only thing we had besides click counters. OMG remember those?

    Steve
    I go back to early Webalizer and Wusage traffic reports. I still have the odd before and after SEO screen grab of traffic charts from these on my hard drive.

    There is nothing new in this disinterest in traffic reports. There are also the issues of constant change and growing complexity with Analytics that are confounding the picture and frustrating site owners.

    Just when you think it is safe to go back in the water the Google white pointer strikes again!

    It may be the intro of asyncronous tracking code or a whole new Analytics interface. If you are going to stay on top of it, it requires a serious time commitment.

    At the other end of the scale, after 18 years, I’m still explaining “hits”, “visitors”, “unique visitors”, “bounce rates”, “keywords”, let alone why “asynchronous” Analytics reports are different to non-asyncronous reports.

    And what is the primary reason for all the upgrades? It’s to help Google generate more Adwords revenue.

    Google should be paying us as educators.

    Why should we be surprised that some folk aren’t interested in traffic stats? If all they’ve done is stick up a free or cheap web page, why would they care about marketing their business online and why would they waste their time on traffic stats?

    As an online marketer, I’m vitally interested in this stuff and I offer my services to people that do need/want to know but who don’t have the time to invest in it.

    The fact is however, that the majority of business owners aren’t.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1117155
    Nikita
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    LemonChip Web Design, post: 135099 wrote:
    Nikita did you read the original post because this isn’t the issue. Of course, if the client says “oh no i have my own stats program I want to use” obviously I’m not saying you should force them into GA etc. The point was that so many people have NOTHING. And it’s not a matter of if they’ll use it or not, but what happens when they come to the day when they DO need it because they want to do some SEO, do some other marketing and monitor the changes, and they have NOTHING being tracked. No reference point to gauge if marketing activities are having an impact, or if it’s just standard activity.

    It doesn’t matter if they use it or not, or they think they don’t need it, because long term there’s a strong chance that at some point they will need it.

    Yes I’ve read the original post and I think this issue doesn’t have any right or wrong answer – it’s just a personal preference of a web designer or a developer to install GA by default unless asked by client.

    On the other hand – what if you didn’t let the client know that in fact you have installed GA on their new website and have access to all their information?

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