Home Forums Tech talk Are you prepared to put your money where your mouth is?

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  • #1160656
    SalenaKnight
    Member
    • Total posts: 604

    Thanks to Matt, I’ve just read your reply.

    Yes, you’re right – it is completly frustrating, and it’s refreshing to hear someone admit that this needs a ‘group’ effort.

    Not something that any person I’ve hired before has suggested (although in saying that, they have advised things like unique product descriptions, which have been done).

    As for price, I see your point. I really do. But.
    Yes, there’s always a but.

    It is just too difficult to do when you have B&M stores attached to your website. I’ve looked around and a vast majority of B&M stores that have web stores utilise the same pricing for the majority of their range. Something that I struggle with, but we offer a complete experience – aftersales service, videos on how to use products, phone support. Clearly this is something that needs to be made more obvious on the website though.

    I’d love to chat in the future, and will bookmark your reply.

    Thank you for sharing,

    Sal

    #1160657
    vhit
    Member
    • Total posts: 70

    Hi Sal,
    I disagree with the comments about pricing. With a higher price people assume it is “better”. Which seems important for baby products! I don’t think price necessarily correlates with sales. But pricing is very situational, it’s good to experiment with it. You would know better for your product.

    And a high profit margin is the most important backbone of a business, in my opinion.

    Thanks
    Whitney

    #1160658
    Aidan
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,125

    Everyone seems to assume that if you improve your SEO and/or PPC then every other competitor will somehow remain as they were before you came on the scene!

    That is an incredibly naieve view.

    You need to understand that they will fight back, they will do everything possible (and affordable) to get their positions back.

    In other words, whether your flavour is SEO or PPC, it is not about you versus Google, it never has been. Google just tries to serve up what it thinks are the best of all possible options it has available to show the searcher.

    That means its about you versus your competitors, all of them, and they’re not standing still, forgeting to look after their own SEO and PPC. Plus, there are new competitors coming on board every day.

    The market is dynamic, not static. Search volumes fluctuate, levels of competition fluctuate, how Google ranks pages fluctuates… even keyword conversion fluctuates due to all sorts of seasonal, product competition, brand bias and other influences.

    Everything fluctuates!

    Now what guarantees can you expect in such an environment? About the same as in share trading, not a lot…

    Because everything fluctuates outside the control of those in the market.

    If you can get a professional to act as if your website was their own that’s about the best you can hope for.

    By the way, every pro out there should have had many failures with his own sites, I’d be very suspicious of anyone claiming to be expert if they have not seen the bad as well as the good along the way!

    Sorry but some things just don’t lend themselves to guarantees. Try getting one from a chiropractor for instance!

    #1160659
    Cesar
    Member
    • Total posts: 591

    The only true guarantees in life, are “Death & Taxes”…

    Aidan, all that you have said is spot on. I still don’t understand though, why individuals can’t grasp the idea that Adwords is the best way to determine if they have a profitable online business.

    If you think about it, after thoroughly researching your keyword list, within a matter of short time of using Adwords, you can get a good idea whether you have a viable business.

    Why spend thousands of dollars and numerous hours of marketing, trying to rank for those exact keywords organically, only to find later that your product or services are not viable.

    #1160660
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    Cesar, post: 188293 wrote:
    I still don’t understand though, why individuals can’t grasp the idea that Adwords is the best way to determine if they have a profitable online business…

    Why spend thousands of dollars and numerous hours of marketing, trying to rank for those exact keywords organically, only to find later that your product or services are not viable.
    A big statement Cesar.

    Are Adwords more effective than TV ads, radio ads, trade press ads, press ads, Facebook ads or PR campaigns?

    IMHO, Adwords work well for a very small percentage of businesses.

    Adwords are currently geared to consumer products and services that are provided over large geographic areas.

    They are not currently good for B2B marketing or businesses with small geographic client bases.

    Unless Google finds an answer, I suggest its ad revenue will be decimated over the next 5 years by various social media sites that can offer better targeting of potential clients.

    IMHO, anyone that is fixated on one online medium is likely to shoot themselves in the foot.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1160661
    Aidan
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,125

    Hi Cesar and JohnW,

    IMHO, it’s a huge ‘it depends’.

    I’ve seen some surprises in AdWords recently at the B2B level where advertisers have been very successful in stuff I initially thought might not work well.

    Sometimes we tend to overlook the effect of ad placement and competition levels in some markets. The cases I’m thinking of have relatively few advertising competitors and thus easily appear in the prime spots ensuring a high CTR. Being the types of businesses they are, they have solid follow up procedures to maximise lead potential.

    On the other hand, some of the mass consumer level stuff is now at extreme competition so it can be difficult to make it economic unless you know how to turn initial sales into long term customers. Really good keyword selection and ads and LPs can make a huge difference.

    In my own experience I’ve found other media, and especially broadcast ads, to be much less effective/more expensive for lead generation than PPC. My recent experiments with Facebook ads have been encouraging but the demand/cost dynamic is radically different to PPC of course.

    #1160662
    Cesar
    Member
    • Total posts: 591

    I’ve always been a big advocate of diversity, and every type of marketing, whether it be online or not, requires some type of fine-tuning or trialing to see what works best. But let’s face it, people search online these days for services and products, and whilst Google is the number one search stream, you might as well take advantage of it.

    Over the last few months, I’ve fine-tuned my Adwords campaigns with great results. My quality score overall averages around 8, which has lowered my CPC considerably. My organic leads, combined with Adwords has become a great formula. Mind you, it took me a while to fine-tune it, but I never gave up.

    #1160663
    marketingweb
    Member
    • Total posts: 625
    Cesar, post: 188293 wrote:
    The only true guarantees in life, are “Death & Taxes”…

    Aidan, all that you have said is spot on. I still don’t understand though, why individuals can’t grasp the idea that Adwords is the best way to determine if they have a profitable online business.

    Anyone claiming that something in marketing world is “the best” without a “for situation X” has me worried.

    Both Google Adwords, and organic search results in general are “pull” marketing. Someone is actively seeking what you sell, and the aim is to be what they find when they look – they stick their head up, and you pull them in. Kind of like yellow pages for the 21st centuary. It’s great for products or services people know they want, where they are looking to find a supplier or evaluate options.

    On the other hand, if you have an exciting new product people are not looking for because they don’t know it exists yet, search is useless. If people don’t know what you sell exists, they sure won’t be searching for it. This is where “push” marketing comes in – getting front and centre in their face saying “hey look at what I have”, to push it to them. In traditional media this is everything from TV ads to Billboards, online it’s things like display advertising, including Facebook ads. The problem with “push” is targeting which is more challenging. In TV land basic strategy might be which program to put the ad with, or online it might be demographic targetting via Facebook, or Google Ads remarketing feature, or even what website you put your ads on.

    If you are comparing SEO vs PPC, that’s one thing as they can be directly compared. But claiming Adwords it’s the be all and end all online is flawed as it simply doesn’t work for some products, and isn’t the best strategy for some others.

    Matt

    #1160664
    Cesar
    Member
    • Total posts: 591
    marketingweb, post: 191567 wrote:
    Anyone claiming that something in marketing world is “the best” without a “for situation X” has me worried.

    Both Google Adwords, and organic search results in general are “pull” marketing. Someone is actively seeking what you sell, and the aim is to be what they find when they look – they stick their head up, and you pull them in. Kind of like yellow pages for the 21st centuary. It’s great for products or services people know they want, where they are looking to find a supplier or evaluate options.

    On the other hand, if you have an exciting new product people are not looking for because they don’t know it exists yet, search is useless. If people don’t know what you sell exists, they sure won’t be searching for it. This is where “push” marketing comes in – getting front and centre in their face saying “hey look at what I have”, to push it to them. In traditional media this is everything from TV ads to Billboards, online it’s things like display advertising, including Facebook ads. The problem with “push” is targeting which is more challenging. In TV land basic strategy might be which program to put the ad with, or online it might be demographic targetting via Facebook, or Google Ads remarketing feature, or even what website you put your ads on.

    If you are comparing SEO vs PPC, that’s one thing as they can be directly compared. But claiming Adwords it’s the be all and end all online is flawed as it simply doesn’t work for some products, and isn’t the best strategy for some others.

    Matt

    Matt buddy,

    The majority of new people who come seeking advice on FS, are in the “Pull Marketing” arena, and most of them are quite misguided when observing the questions they ask, especially SEO. So, my remarks were comparing the SEO vs PPC marketing strategies.

    The “Push Marketing” strategy, is very few and far between, and requires a substantial amount of money, e.g TV and Radio advertising to get the project into full-gear. Just recently, I was looking at doing radio advertising, but when you are paying around $8000.00 per month on a 1 year contract, it was not a viable option. So, I’m sticking with Adwords, better ROI.

    As I said, you need to do your homework before signing the dotted-line.

    #1160665
    marketingweb
    Member
    • Total posts: 625

    Cesar – TV & Radio were only examples mainly for comparison, I also mentioned Facebook ads and Google display advertising including their remarketing feature as two others that are online.

    There are many more also of course. My point that saying X is best without a clarification or knowing the product to be marketed being a flawed mindset still stands.

    And $8000 a month for radio sounds hectic! I guess depends where you are – I’m in a large regional area with 4 or 5 very active commercial radio stations competing for advertising spend, and the costs certainly aren’t that high!

    Re your overall point, you say most of Flying Solo will be looking at Pull methods, and you are perhaps right many are, but not exclusively. One example that comes to mind without even looking is the lady with the very niche and unique “undies clips” business (or whatever they are called) which are actually a great idea for old people, but not one that pull marketing would be any significant part of.

    Nothing it best all the time, a skilled marketer will analyse the business including it’s budget, product, market etc and work out who best to get there. I’m glad you have found what works best for you, but don’t be naive enough to link you have found some universal law of marketing. Adwords is fantastic in some cases, and I have certain clients I wish would take up my recommendations to use it, and others who already do successfully. But your “Adwords good, SEO bad” mantra you have been going on with for at least 3 years is getting a repetitive and tired.

    Matt

    #1160666
    Cesar
    Member
    • Total posts: 591
    marketingweb, post: 191644 wrote:
    Cesar – TV & Radio were only examples mainly for comparison, I also mentioned Facebook ads and Google display advertising including their remarketing feature as two others that are online.

    There are many more also of course. My point that saying X is best without a clarification or knowing the product to be marketed being a flawed mindset still stands.

    And $8000 a month for radio sounds hectic! I guess depends where you are – I’m in a large regional area with 4 or 5 very active commercial radio stations competing for advertising spend, and the costs certainly aren’t that high!

    Re your overall point, you say most of Flying Solo will be looking at Pull methods, and you are perhaps right many are, but not exclusively. One example that comes to mind without even looking is the lady with the very niche and unique “undies clips” business (or whatever they are called) which are actually a great idea for old people, but not one that pull marketing would be any significant part of.

    Nothing it best all the time, a skilled marketer will analyse the business including it’s budget, product, market etc and work out who best to get there. I’m glad you have found what works best for you, but don’t be naive enough to link you have found some universal law of marketing. Adwords is fantastic in some cases, and I have certain clients I wish would take up my recommendations to use it, and others who already do successfully. But your “Adwords good, SEO bad” mantra you have been going on with for at least 3 years is getting a repetitive and tired.

    Matt

    Matt, you should read my posts more carefully.

    Cesar, post: 188300 wrote:
    I’ve always been a big advocate of diversity, and every type of marketing, whether it be online or not, requires some type of fine-tuning or trialing to see what works best.

    Currently for my business, and I cover the whole Sydney region and employ a few contractors, I use both Facebook, Twitter, Adwords and Internet Marketing to get qualified leads. So, I think I do qualify as being a skilled marketer, and I have hired the work of some members here on FS to do some of my marketing ideas for me.

    In regard to this post, everything we have discussed is quite relevant to the OP’s original request.

    #1160667
    I.T. Guaranteed
    Member
    • Total posts: 51

    What an interesting thread this is. Hats off to all those who have contributed.

    My 2 cents worth.

    It boils down to

    Can you actually put your reputation on the line?

    Posts against have come down to saying many things are out of the consultants hands, or such and such cannot be controlled by the consultant.

    There are a few contributors on Flying Solo that do provide such satisfaction guarantees. I am one. Alas I do not offer SEO services, nor copywriting. (but I am in the market to purchase such services)

    I also see that Tony Manto provides such a guarantee for his coaching services, but I cannot speak for him. Because of this guarantee Tony is on my list of people to contact to see if there is any magic that he can work for me.

    I have run with this guarantee in business for 19 years (next month) and it hasn’t done me any harm at all. There are so many things that are out of my hands when I develop and install software for clients. There are the clients internet connections, their hardware, their network, other software. And then there are the rusted on users who don’t want to change and actively fight to retain their old software and constantly complain about doing things new ways. I take all these on the chin, because I really love a challenge. And I deliver.

    I recall the time when one I.T. Manager thought that I couldn’t possibly deliver satisfaction and as a result quoted my guarantee on the purchase order. That client has now been with me six years.

    Flower Child, I looked at your web site in particular the Returns & Refunds page. Kudos to you for offering free returns on not passing the customers test. Unfortunately I see you only offer a credit and not a refund. You might like to consider changing that.

    Are you in fact asking in the original post for something that you do not offer yourself? A money back guarantee.

    If someone were to come along in the SEO / copywriting / on-line marketing area with such a guarantee I think they would do very well indeed.

    #1160668
    bb1
    Participant
    • Total posts: 4,485

    Jay,

    Interesting post, but I do ask what do you call a satisfaction guarantee, I look at your web site and I think you are saying you will give me my money back, but is that really a satisfaction guarantee? At what point in time can I claim my satisfaction guarantee? And at the end of the day what will it cost me if I claim my satisfaction guarantee ?

    Bert

    #1160669
    I.T. Guaranteed
    Member
    • Total posts: 51

    Hi Bert,

    Thanks for the question.

    In I.T. their are all kinds of metrics. Particularly when you get involved in tenders. There are speed metrics on data throughput, there’s downtime. There are service metrics about response times and resolution times. These go on and on.

    I choose to make it much simpler.

    If my client is not satisfied then they can have their current subscription back, and further they can continue to use the software until the end of their current subscription. You see, I want my clients to choose to remain, rather than be forced to remain due to a contract that locks them in.

    So that guarantee is offered for the full duration of each annual subscription.

    I also survey my clients, that is their employees (my end users), annually to see if I am meeting their expectations and where I can improve. (We can all improve)

    Thanks for the question.

    #1160670
    bb1
    Participant
    • Total posts: 4,485
    I.T. Guaranteed, post: 191684 wrote:
    Hi Bert,

    Thanks for the question.

    In I.T. their are all kinds of metrics. Particularly when you get involved in tenders. There are speed metrics on data throughput, there’s downtime. There are service metrics about response times and resolution times. These go on and on.

    I choose to make it much simpler.

    If my client is not satisfied then they can have their current subscription back, and further they can continue to use the software until the end of their current subscription. You see, I want my clients to choose to remain, rather than be forced to remain due to a contract that locks them in.

    So that guarantee is offered for the full duration of each annual subscription.

    I also survey my clients, that is their employees (my end users), annually to see if I am meeting their expectations and where I can improve. (We can all improve)

    Thanks for the question.

    Hi Jay,

    Thanks for the response, prior to seeing the light and having my tree change I worked in IT for well over 25 years so i am aware of the multitude of metrics available, I have I worked with a variety of consultants and claims of providing customer satisfaction.

    So it is from this perspective that I asked the questions and use this as a warning to anyone else.

    See my problem is that you are not really offering me a “satisfaction” guarantee, just a money back guarantee. But even your money back guarantee leaves me in a pickle, and out of pocket, and subsequently very very disatisfied.

    My scenario.

    I have you implement solution XYZ into my business. Once implemented we run with it for say a period of 3 months, we work through any issues which we have for whatever reason (your product may be perfect, but just not right). At the 3 months point I declare I want to invoke my satisfaction guarantee, so you “happily” give me my “current subscription” back, and we part company.

    You have lost a client and X amount of time that you have put into the sale

    Me, I have a new implementation, which I am not happy with, and most likely paid far more than my current subscription to implement but I am stuck in no mans land, I either continue to use your product, but after the subscription period I have to migrate to a new platform, which costs me all the implementation and conversion costs.

    Or I decide when i give your product the heave ho, to go back to my original product, but low and behold, I am missing 3 months worth of data in my old tool (if it is still running).

    So where is my satisfaction????, not guaranteed thats for sure. I am up for a heap of dollars no matter what scenario I look at.

    I wouldnt comment on Flowerchild only offering a credit instead of full refund when your own guarantee leaves me in a much worse situation.

    A true satisfaction gurantee would either deliver the product fully to my satisfaction (and yes i know a client is never satisfied), or return me back to my starting point with no cost to me, that is not the case with what you are offering.

    Not satisfied.

    PS, I am not or ever being a client so this is not coming from that perspective, just pulling apart what is really words with little meaning.

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