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  • #1118363
    NathanB
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    Zava Design, post: 133125 wrote:
    You really just want to argue rather than learn anything, that’s apparent.

    Let’s look at just some of the issues I’ve come across with regards to badly built sites just recently:
    – badly coded front end, resulting in slow loading speeds, inconsistent display across different browsers, bad display on mobile devices, bad SEO performance
    – badly coded or set up admin, resulting in content being entered not dislaying well, or breaking the site since php/html may have not been filtered from being entered, time consuming for client due to confusing admin set up.

    That’s just the main code base… I could spend even longer on the site architecture, fonts being used, how images are being delivered from the server, visual hierarchy and how that effects comprehension and user actions and responses, content markup… I could probably name a dozen more elements, all of which I could deconstruct any site with, and most of which I could provide real world examples of how it can impact the real world effectiveness of your site.

    But you’re not paying me, so that’s plenty of free consultancy from me. :)

    I am deliberately trying NOT to argue,

    I am asking the same question over and over and over again. I agree with you 100% that poorly built/designed websites, logos, apps etc… are all bad.

    I am asking: How do you deliver a measurable difference from ALL the other guys out there in the market claiming they do the exact same thing as you but actually don’t.

    If I had a say $5000 budget and my choice was between you and say Condor to create my logo. What outcomes would you offer in order to win the account?

    #1118364
    Zava Design
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    Seriously, FFS, I just gave a list of elements with regards to web design & development. Why not think for yourself a little for once in this thread, extrapolate, and realise that could also be done by the relevant professional for their area of expertise. I myself don’t offer logo design as a standalone service, so you would need to go ask a logo designer for the specifics on that specific service. As you would a car mechanic, hair dresser, masseuse, and whatever other professional service you can think of.

    #1118365
    NathanB
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    Zava Design, post: 133149 wrote:
    Seriously, FFS, I just gave a list of elements with regards to web design & development. Why not think for yourself a little for once in this thread, extrapolate, and realise that could also be done by the relevant professional for their area of expertise. I myself don’t offer logo design as a standalone service, so you would need to go ask a logo designer for the specifics on that specific service. As you would a car mechanic, hair dresser, masseuse, and whatever other professional service you can think of.

    Easy up turbo :)

    YOu have told me elements for sound design or quality work. Things that should be inherit and really anything anyone does.

    I wasn’t asking what elements make certian things or processors good.

    I am asking. If I hire you, over any one else, will there be a visible difference in my bank account due to what you deliver and how do you demonstrate there will.

    And so far you have avoided answering the question by attacking me, my views, my site… what else you got? As I said I have thing skin and enjoy complex discussion…

    #1118366
    Zava Design
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    NathanB, post: 133154 wrote:
    YOu have told me elements for sound design or quality work. Things that should be inherit and really anything anyone does.
    Umm, they’re not, and the majority of work that comes from cheaper overseas resources have identifiable issues along the elements mentioned, which all have real world impact on site performance, usability and effectiveness. And we haven’t even got onto the visual side of things.

    If I could be bothered, I could go through any number of sites coming out of Odesk and the like and point out dozens of issues in each and every one, issues that impact on site performance and effectiveness. I could actually do that with the majority of sites posted on this forum for review, but as not everyone has the budget to do as effective a site as possible and I realise that I leave most of them alone.

    But I have provided more than enough information for anyone to have some idea of the issues they should look for with a website.

    #1118367
    NathanB
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    Zava Design, post: 133157 wrote:
    If I could be bothered, I could go through any number of sites coming out of Odesk and the like and point out dozens of issues in each and every one, issues that impact on site performance and effectiveness. I could actually do that with the majority of sites posted on this forum for review, but as not everyone has the budget to do as effective a site as possible and I realise that I leave most of them alone.

    And if you could be bothered you could probably go through a heap of local designers folios and do the same thing, except the difference is, all these guys ran around claiming they offer all this extra fluff and charge 15 times the price.

    ALL I am asking for… is a way to measure the results you produce with all the extra work/skill you claim to have/do….

    #1118368
    Zava Design
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    NathanB, post: 133159 wrote:
    And if you could be bothered you could probably go through a heap of local designers folios and do the same thing, except the difference is, all these guys ran around claiming they offer all this extra fluff and charge 15 times the price.
    Did I say anything about bad designers/developers being only non-Australian based?

    ALL I am asking for… is a way to measure the results you produce with all the extra work/skill you claim to have/do….

    I don’t claim anything. Now why don’t you go and answer the only question I’ve put to you in the other thread?

    #1118369
    NathanB
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    Zava Design, post: 133160 wrote:
    Did I say anything about bad designers/developers being only non-Australian based?

    I don’t claim anything. Now why don’t you go and answer the only question I’ve put to you in the other thread?

    Once again, neither am I.

    I am asking… Can you demonstrate the difference in a measurable way between YOU and ANYONE ELSE.

    #1118370
    Zava Design
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    NathanB, post: 133167 wrote:
    Once again, neither am I.

    I am asking… Can you demonstrate the difference in a measurable way between YOU and ANYONE ELSE.
    To you? No.

    One of the main benefits or working for yourself I have found, next to being able to sleep in most mornings, is being able to pick and choose who to take on as a client, and who to bother giving advice & your time to. :)

    #1118371
    NathanB
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    Zava Design, post: 133170 wrote:
    To you? No.

    One of the main benefits or working for yourself I have found, next to being able to sleep in most mornings, is being able to pick and choose who to take on as a client, and who to bother giving advice & your time to. :)

    Fair enough.

    And FWIW that’s actually pretty solid answer to the question I have been asking all this time.

    There are many many designers that need to prove why they are worth a contract to win contracts… if you are one of the fortunate ones who have work coming out the wazu and you can pick and choose your clients, you don’t need to say anything other than “look and the name on the door” that’s why I charge X…

    If you had have said that 6 pages ago, this conversation would have been alot shorter. :) haha.

    #1118372
    Nobby
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    I went to the Philippines 3 years ago on a fact finding mission and to attend aseminar on Outsourcing predominantly fr the online community of internet marketers, which is where I have been deeply immersed for the past 6 years.
    Earlier this year I decided I would use the services of an outsourc company pver there, but found that all the stories I had kept hearing were well founded.
    Such as the people who were employed just disappeared and went walk-about, no thought was given to the work, there was no understanding of urgency, quality was ot high on the priority list, and these just some amongst others.
    So I visited the people I knew over there, and as aresult, decided this wasn’t good eneough and that Australian businesses deserved better.
    As a result, I have now set up my own outsourcing company in the Philippines, and going back this week to set up the office and employ people.
    But here is the rub for some businesses in Australia. But particularly so America. We won’t deal with everyone, and for good reason. You see, the message has been out there too long that the labor is cheap and can be taken advantage of. And as such many people try to do just that by taking advantage of the conditions by beating the Filipinos down on price or not even paying them at all.
    So the people we do business with will be niched into those who can afford it and understand true value. What will they get? Western training and education of local staff, E1 internet access, power generator backup, 24hour office hours and superied staff by qualified locals.
    So yes, eventually, a lot of work may go overseas, and costs are a major factor.
    The bottom line is the Win Win Win factor for ALL involved, the client, the company and local community. And most of all the individual workers!

    #1118373
    Divert To Mobile
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    Nobby, post: 133959 wrote:
    I went to the Philippines 3 years ago on a fact finding mission and to attend aseminar on Outsourcing predominantly fr the online community of internet marketers, which is where I have been deeply immersed for the past 6 years.
    Earlier this year I decided I would use the services of an outsourc company pver there, but found that all the stories I had kept hearing were well founded.
    Such as the people who were employed just disappeared and went walk-about, no thought was given to the work, there was no understanding of urgency, quality was ot high on the priority list, and these just some amongst others.
    So I visited the people I knew over there, and as aresult, decided this wasn’t good eneough and that Australian businesses deserved better.
    As a result, I have now set up my own outsourcing company in the Philippines, and going back this week to set up the office and employ people.
    But here is the rub for some businesses in Australia. But particularly so America. We won’t deal with everyone, and for good reason. You see, the message has been out there too long that the labor is cheap and can be taken advantage of. And as such many people try to do just that by taking advantage of the conditions by beating the Filipinos down on price or not even paying them at all.
    So the people we do business with will be niched into those who can afford it and understand true value. What will they get? Western training and education of local staff, E1 internet access, power generator backup, 24hour office hours and superied staff by qualified locals.
    So yes, eventually, a lot of work may go overseas, and costs are a major factor.
    The bottom line is the Win Win Win factor for ALL involved, the client, the company and local community. And most of all the individual workers!

    The problem I see with outsourcing overseas is the quality of the final copy or work.

    I cant justify paying anything for year 8 level spelling, grammar and attention to detail.

    Steve

    #1118374
    Nathan Hartnett
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    We were recently at an event where Thomas Friedman spoke, and loved what he said. He reckons that the term “outsourcing” is sooo 1990’s. The reality is, technology has made it so that it is much easier to find “value”, regardless of where that value comes from. From our personal experience, we live in Bangkok, have many of our products made in China, have a warehouse in our home town of Brisbane, use an Australian graphic designer (found on elance.com), and Australian bookkeeper, an Australian Accountant, use lots of U.S. based services and use web designers in India.

    We have had terrible experiences with web designers in India as well as great experiences. The same goes for manufacturers in China. We have also had an Australian bookkeeper who ended up in jail for fraud, an Australian accountant who simply couldn’t come to grips with crazy things like exchange rates and PayPal, and an Australian solicitor who ripped us off terribly.

    I guess all I’m saying is that the concept of value being locked in certain borderlines is not how businesses of tomorrow should be thinking. Develop your own systems that will help you find quality service providers, because if you don’t, you can be certain your competitors will.

    Just my two cents for what they’re worth.

    #1118375
    Shaukat Adam Khalid
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    i spoke to a friend who recently wasted $800 on a call centre in the phillipines for appointment setting. They didn’t even watch the videos he created nor did they make a single call.

    He didn’t go through Odesk. He just went direct to vendor thinking he could save a buck not that Odesk, rentacoder, etc are reliable or dependable.

    The problem with outsourcing is no different than hiring local contractors or consultants. If you don’t what you are doing or worse, don’t have clear process, policies and procedures to follow, you’re potentially throwing money away.

    In terms of quality, i would wager foreigners do it better on a dollar for dollar basis. They seem to be more motivated and grateful. You need to be willing to pay for quality and not go for the cheapest.

    The trick is to know exactly what you want so you don’t get stuffed around. E.g if you need a web designer, go do a course on web design to understand the lingo and what is involved.

    That way you know what is required and how long it should take before even asking for a bid.

Viewing 13 posts - 31 through 43 (of 43 total)
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