Home – New Forums Marketing mastery Content is NOT King..

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #994848
    livelife12
    Member
    • Total posts: 20
    Up
    0
    ::

    SEO Experts…

    I read this article and its tells me content/on page is NOT that relevant…

    Discuss..

    https://ahrefs.com/blog/on-page-seo/

    #1198746
    Paul – FS Concierge
    Keymaster
    • Total posts: 3,488
    Up
    0
    ::

    Sorry, not an SEO expert but I do benefit from on-page SEO so that is the tact I will take.

    My feeling, in Local Markets, is that you do the basics such as Titles, Meta’s H1’s, relevant content, internal linking etc, and let google take care of the rest.

    Everybody has to draw the line somewhere or else mass confusion ensues.

    Brian Dean has a good infographic on his site.

    Cheers

    #1198747
    Tiggerito
    Member
    • Total posts: 362
    Up
    0
    ::

    titles, headings and content all had positive correlations. I’d say that means on-page is relevant.

    I takes a lot of dodgy links to make a page rank for something it does not talk about.

    #1198748
    JohnTranter
    Member
    • Total posts: 842
    Up
    0
    ::

    I suspect the clue is in the top paragraph

    Quote:
    UPDATE: Initially this article contained quite a bit of controversy – we’ll freely admit that this was to get a bit of extra attention and spark conversations. But this controversy backfired a little, so we decided to remove all of it from this article
    #1198749
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    Up
    0
    ::

    Unfortunately we don’t know if Livelife referenced the article before it was modified. All we can do is discuss what is there now.

    The current article does not infer anything like “content is not KING”. It in fact, infers quite the opposite in a very incomplete way.

    There is NOT ONE SINGLE element of “newness” in this article and IMHO, very little balance.

    There are so many ranking signals ignored by the article. Eg:

    • Competition for search terms
    • Site design
    • Site structure
    • Country specific SE used
    • Query deserves freshness
    • Google’s Universal search
    • When location search kicks in
    • Mobile enabled pages in mobile search

    (PS. Search competition is not a ranking signal as such, rather an important factor that dictates how hard/easy it should be to rank top of the SERPs.)

    The only non-content word related ranking signals that are less than 2 years old are the last two signals.

    The article is written by the employee of an SEO tool marketer. The company’s software can’t/doesn’t assess any of the above ranking factors, so it doesn’t discuss them in the article.

    It also makes no reference to all the correletions that Google staff have said are purely coincidental.

    Let me see if I’ve got this right.

    You take a bunch of elements that the software company can measure and you correlate them with ranking results…

    You could flip a coin and be right 50% of the time. DUH!

    Just because you can measure something, that does not make it important!

    For 8 years old FSs may recall I’ve responded to articles like this with the search phrase: railway sleepers Sydney

    If you search on G AU you should see Statewidesleepers.com.au at #1.

    This 5 page site has ranked there almost since its inception.

    • It has almost no external links
    • The keyword is not used in any page title, URL, H1 tag.
    • It has very limited content on each page.
    • There are NO social media pages linked to it.

    It still scores enough ranking points for these three words to rank where it does today.

    It breaks with all the ranking factors discussed in the article yet it’s still #1.

    If you search for an exact match phrase: “railway sleepers Sydney”

    … Statewide is no longer ranked #1 because the exact phrase is not used anywhere on the site.

    You should see a page dated Sep 2010 from Brandpolice which ranks about #5. That was published to prove that exact match keywords, long content pages and external links were the most important ranking elements.

    Another SEO who participated in this ranking test has deleted his page. Last seen it did not rank as high as the Brandpolice page.

    Take the search phrase out of quotes and the Brandpolice page drops down to around #27.

    So much for the importance exact keywords used anywhere.

    Exact match keywords have only ever played a very minor part of a page’s ranking. The problem for the SEO tool sellers is that this fact severely compromises one of their main selling propositions. I don’t find them useful for small websites at all.

    The best SEO tip is to answer as many relevant search questions as possible on search topic relevant pages – focus, focus, focus on making the page content as relevant to the needs of the searcher as possible. Use page formatting to help the reader. Wait for Google to catch up with your content, don’t artifically chase the algorithm.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1198750
    livelife12
    Member
    • Total posts: 20
    Up
    0
    ::

    Thanks everyone and JohnW.

    JohnW you wrote:

    For 8 years old FSs may recall I’ve responded to articles like this with the search phrase: railway sleepers Sydney

    If you search on G AU you should see Statewidesleepers.com.au at #1.

    This 5 page site has ranked there almost since its inception.

    • It has almost no external links
    • The keyword is not used in any page title, URL, H1 tag.
    • It has very limited content on each page.
    • There are NO social media pages linked to it.

    It still scores enough ranking points for these three words to rank where it does today.

    It breaks with all the ranking factors discussed in the article yet it’s still #1.

    If you search for an exact match phrase: “railway sleepers Sydney”

    … Statewide is no longer ranked #1 because the exact phrase is not used anywhere on the site.

    Question: This looks like its not something that has all that much competition, so when it comes to a field or industry that has alot of competition what is it that will have the greatest effect?

    When you have big companies trying to compete for direct keywords and a group of keywords around a subject I think it takes a number of factors to make rankings happen.

    1) unique on page content over 500 words/ over 1000 words? over 3000 words?

    2) Geographical locations in the image alt tags eg- Sydney,Melbourne Brisbane.

    3) Is it wrong to put locations Eg – Melbourne Sydney in all of your Tittle tags? IF you have a couple of hundred pages all with this in the page tittles is google going to penalize you?

    If you are servicing products/services in these areas I am not sure if G would see it as a bad thing.

    4) How relevant are back links? People often say this is still the best thing you can do once your onpage SEO is upto scratch.

    #1198751
    bb1
    Participant
    • Total posts: 4,485
    Up
    0
    ::

    Is this just another example of if you read enough articles on the internet, every thing is good for SEO, or everything is bad for SEO.

    Just like researching on a lot of the latest health fads, last week you were told not to eat potatoes, this week its eat them for breakfast, lunch and dinner and tomorrow it will be make sure you include a dash of Green matured pickles with them.

    I guess what I am saying is what do we and what don’t we believe in the SEO space.

    #1198752
    Paul – FS Concierge
    Keymaster
    • Total posts: 3,488
    Up
    0
    ::
    bb1, post: 235235, member: 53375 wrote:
    Is this just another example of if you read enough articles on the internet, every thing is good for SEO, or everything is bad for SEO.

    Just like researching on a lot of the latest health fads, last week you were told not to eat potatoes, this week its eat them for breakfast, lunch and dinner and tomorrow it will be make sure you include a dash of Green matured pickles with them.

    I guess what I am saying is what do we and what don’t we believe in the SEO space.

    It is pretty easy Bert,

    Google publishes what it wants to see so it is hard to go wrong by looking at Google itself.

    In addition to what John W says, there are basically a few broad tactics that work:

    • On-Page SEO signals work for Local Business together with citations
    • Publish relevant and unique content.
    • Do outreach to gain links, especially from reputable sources for national or international sites.
    • Reverse engineer successful sites to build, replicate or better their link profile.

    There is broad agreement around what to do.

    What tactics to use that will meet the SEO and budget needs of the business is the most relevant question.

    A skilled practitioner will be able to offer on-point advice.

    #1198753
    bb1
    Participant
    • Total posts: 4,485
    Up
    0
    ::
    Paul – FS Concierge, post: 235244, member: 78928 wrote:
    It is pretty easy Bert,

    Google publishes what it wants to see so it is hard to go wrong by looking at Google itself.

    In addition to what John W says, there are basically a few broad tactics that work:

    • On-Page SEO signals work for Local Business together with citations
    • Publish relevant and unique content.
    • Do outreach to gain links, especially from reputable sources for national or international sites.
    • Reverse engineer successful sites to build, replicate or better their link profile.

    There is broad agreement around what to do.

    What tactics to use that will meet the SEO and budget needs of the business is the most relevant question.

    A skilled practitioner will be able to offer on-point advice.

    [USER=78928]@Paul – FS Concierge[/USER] , Fully agree with you there Paul, the big problem, and that’s why I highlighted it, this space (internet) is frequented by many people who have little knowledge on the subject, and will read any article offered or found on Google (search I mean not Google itself), and take it as gospel.

    We all (me to), need to assume that any article found on the web is written from one persons perspective (and is often a sales pitch), and may be diametrically opposed to reality.

    #1198754
    JohnTranter
    Member
    • Total posts: 842
    Up
    0
    ::
    bb1, post: 235235, member: 53375 wrote:
    Is this just another example of if you read enough articles on the internet, every thing is good for SEO, or everything is bad for SEO.

    I think it’s a good example of “Clickbait is King”

    they even admit it in the article.

    #1198755
    bb1
    Participant
    • Total posts: 4,485
    Up
    0
    ::
    JohnTranter, post: 235247, member: 20554 wrote:
    I think it’s a good example of “Clickbait is King”

    they even admit it in the article.

    Which just highlights my concerns, as now its got the SEO people on this forum discussing it, so giving it even more relevance.

    PS. I start my Potato, peanut butter, dash of Green pickles and rare African chilli sour wheat diet tomorrow

    #1198756
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    Up
    0
    ::
    livelife12, post: 235184, member: 44018 wrote:
    Thanks everyone and JohnW.

    JohnW you wrote:

    For 8 years old FSs may recall I’ve responded to articles like this with the search phrase: railway sleepers Sydney

    If you search on G AU you should see Statewidesleepers.com.au at #1.

    This 5 page site has ranked there almost since its inception.

    • It has almost no external links
    • The keyword is not used in any page title, URL, H1 tag.
    • It has very limited content on each page.
    • There are NO social media pages linked to it.

    It still scores enough ranking points for these three words to rank where it does today.

    It breaks with all the ranking factors discussed in the article yet it’s still #1.

    If you search for an exact match phrase: “railway sleepers Sydney”

    … Statewide is no longer ranked #1 because the exact phrase is not used anywhere on the site.

    Question: This looks like its not something that has all that much competition, so when it comes to a field or industry that has alot of competition what is it that will have the greatest effect?

    When you have big companies trying to compete for direct keywords and a group of keywords around a subject I think it takes a number of factors to make rankings happen.

    1) unique on page content over 500 words/ over 1000 words? over 3000 words?

    2) Geographical locations in the image alt tags eg- Sydney,Melbourne Brisbane.

    3) Is it wrong to put locations Eg – Melbourne Sydney in all of your Tittle tags? IF you have a couple of hundred pages all with this in the page tittles is google going to penalize you?

    If you are servicing products/services in these areas I am not sure if G would see it as a bad thing.

    4) How relevant are back links? People often say this is still the best thing you can do once your onpage SEO is upto scratch.
    Hi Livlife,
    I’m afraid you want simple solutions where there are none.

    Your points 1-4 may help you rank higher to some search phrases. Of themselves, they are unlikely to boost a page to the top 10 list for any competitive search phrase.

    Simply sticking location words in titles and alt tags when these words are irrelevant to the site and page’s visible content are unlikely to help. Google won’t need to penalise you. If you dump a word in a title that is irrelevant to the page’s content, the page’s ranking should be slightly diminished for searches using the real content words.

    Read this article on the specific issues of location word targeting:

    Assessing Backlink Values
    According to Google, for some types of searches, backlinks are not used at all as a ranking factor.

    If I search for “plumber“, G seems to ignore external links. All top 10 results seem to based on my location.

    If I search for “plumber Newcastle” I get around 6 directory site pages in the top 10. There are only 3 Home pages listed of Newcastle plumber’s sites. It does not look like external links are important in this search type either.

    Where they are a ranking signal, the SEO issues you will need to address with backlinks include:

    • What are the attributes G uses to assess backlink values?
    • Where on the external site is the linked page located?
    • Where on your site is the link receiving page located?
    • Which of your site pages have you indicated to G are the most important?
    • What are the search words you want to boost with external links
    • How are you going to obtain links that are both valuable and not obtained in a way that may cause G to penalise your site?

    Building valuable backlinks in a way that does not infringe G’s guidelines is very time consuming even if you have a very good knowledge of SEO.

    On top of this, G is changing how it values and scores backlink values all the time. About every 2-3 years it kills link building schemes that have got out of hand. At these points there have been countless examples of business that have been bankrupt or had $millions ripped off their sales or share values over night as a result of G changing this ranking parameter.

    There are far more important ranking issues at play than you addresss in your questions but let me talk to perhaps the two most important ones:

    • the level of online competition
    • answering the searcher’s question

    1. The level of online competition
    All online search markets have low competition levels at some point.

    An old figure was that the average length of search phrases was 4-5 words. That’s probably getting much longer now with the rapid growth of voice activated search.

    The “high competition” markets you refer to are likely to be ones where people use 3 words or less in the search phrase. With 30 trillion docs in G’s index there will be many three word searches where too many results are irrelevant to the searcher’s needs. So they search again and again adding more search words. Each time they do this they make the search results less competitive and easier to rank on top of the heap.

    Short length search phrases are where people start their searches. You want your page to be top when they finish their search session. (Ave. search session duration is 4-5 searches.)

    For many businesses, as much as 70% of relevant generic SE referrals can be in the low competition 5+ search word space. (Personal opinion based on years of observing many client’s websites.)

    2. Answering the searchers’ questions
    If I was forced to select the SEO issue that is responsible for most lost SE referrals, I’d say it’s because sites often don’t have a page that qualifies for a whole raft of important search phrases.

    Take ecommerce sites and their use of location words. It is far from rare to find the only use of a location word is on a Contact Us page and then it is a suburb postal address. No useful product info on a Contact Us page.

    If someone searches for any of the site’s product categories, products or brands and uses it combined with a capital city location, there is often no site page to answer the searchers’ questions.

    Google’s Matt Cutts lists the same reason in his video:

    SEO involves a lot of research into what ranking parameters G may selectively use for different types of searches. Then there is a lot of tactical assessment of how to avoid competing with people who have far more resources than you.

    If there are 10 large companies targeting a specific search terms with $1,000 of expert SEO time per month and all you can throw at the term is part of one person’s time who has a basic knowledge of SEO, you will be wasting that person’s time because they will never out-rank the big companies for the term.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1198757
    Warren Cottis
    Participant
    • Total posts: 807
    Up
    0
    ::

    All that I can hope to add to this discussion is…

    For a client in a big dollar sale business where it’s mostly nuts and bolts stuff… by adding more benefits / value and a touch of emotion in the Content there was a relatively fast 5% increase in sales.

    By maintaining the Content level, there has been no drop back.

    Do I think Content is important… absolutely?

    If you’d like to see what their website was before and is now I’ll can offer a link for comparison and proof… but make no mistake that all of this Internet stuff is going to get Much More Competitive and your biggest Point of Difference is the Value of Your Content.

    It’s the BIG Advantage the little guy has to still kick Arse.

    It’s not going to get easier… eventually even the lazy folks are going to be replaced by a new generation who will improve that online presence for the business.

    So Pick Your Spot and Own It by giving what God Google wants for now… Quality Content.

    Then next month we assess again… it’s a dynamic world now and set and forget is your enemy if you want to stand out.

    Having said all of that… the other side of the coin is you could be a local business and return calls, turn up on time, do a damn good job, try to upsell something while you’re there, Follow Up past customers blah blah… and you will still do very well.

    Why?… because most don’t

    And that’s why improving your content is still easy wins… in Internet Land… in my humble opinion.

    Not sexy but does seem to work

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.