Creating a logo….

[bridiej]

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LemonChip, post: 132911 wrote:

I think the main difficulty is that people don’t understand the difference, or they don’t understand why it’s valuable.

Spot on. A logo is an investment, not an expense.

[BrettM33]

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TheGoldenGoose, post: 132905 wrote:

There is no way I feel threatened by a company that charges $20 or even $99 for a “logo design.”

That pretty much sums it up. All these “cheap” logo designers are doing IS just that – “logo design”, nothing else.

[NathanB]

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Zava Design, post: 132887 wrote:

Ahh, this is always a funny one.

Do you not consider why they need to offer unlimited revisions on their work??

And surely I would have thought you engage a “professional” for them to have the expertise to solve your problem, not for them to produce random graphics until they come up with one you “like”? Especially considering that the logo is not for you at all, but for your target audience, who you may or may not have an indepth knowledge of. A good logo designer will gather that knowledge before creating a logo.

That’s the difference between an experienced professional (me) sourcing work from Odesk and Jo-everyman trying to do it himself.

I do not rely on contractors to solve my own or my clients problems. I solve my clients problems and then hire people to complete work I spec up.

There is no hit and miss in my work and I do not just sit there thrashing out image are image until I find something I like.

No one in this conversation is yet to demonstrate a real difference in value between what you and what can be done by out-soucing.

I would be interested to hear how you measure the success of you logo design.

The simple fact that everyone is just rubbishing the system as whole rather than demonstrating why they is quite interesting and very “today tonight”ish. It’s the same style of distain I have seen for marketeers towards daily deal websites.

[NathanB]

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CondorCreative, post: 133010 wrote:

That pretty much sums it up. All these “cheap” logo designers are doing IS just that – “logo design”, nothing else.

That’s excatly what I have been saying

The edge of the local is that they can do soo much more for their clients, but sadly… everyone claims they do more but really not many actually do anything that’s measurable.

You can tell your clients how you’ll research them, their competitors, the status quo a whole. You can tell them how you’ll pick X colours and test market several concepts to focus groups… but unless all of that effort equates to a visible return for the client. It’s just fluff.

And hey, I’m in marketing – I’m all about the fluff!

[BrettM33]

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NathanB, post: 133021 wrote:

No one in this conversation is yet to demonstrate a real difference in value between what you and what can be done by out-soucing.

That’s funny, I think many people have, guess you selectively just choose to glance over it.

[NathanB]

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CondorCreative, post: 133036 wrote:

That’s funny, I think many people have, guess you selectively just choose to glance over it.

Well it is a bit.

You have told me what you do, how you gett clients to fill out forms, research their business etc… but please demonstrate the difference it will have to my bottom line? After all, it’s what I would be paying you significantly more for correct?

[BrettM33]

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NathanB, post: 133037 wrote:

Well it is a bit.

You have told me what you do, how you gett clients to fill out forms, research their business etc… but please demonstrate the difference it will have to my bottom line? After all, it’s what I would be paying you significantly more for correct?

I don’t think you need for me to explain to you what having a well thought out logo does for you over a $20 logo.

If it was that easy why do companies such as BP spend $4.6M on getting their logo done?

Obviously not everyone needs to spend that much, but most people will be able to figure out what goes into the cost of the “production” of it.

If you must know….. I suggest having a read of this article to answer just the question you are asking.

[NathanB]

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CondorCreative, post: 133038 wrote:

I don’t think you need for me to explain to you what having a well thought out logo does for you over a $20 logo.

If it was that easy why do companies such as BP spend $4.6M on getting their logo done?

Obviously not everyone needs to spend that much, but most people will be able to figure out what goes into the cost of the “production” of it.

If you must know….. I suggest having a read of this article to answer just the question you are asking.

You have missed the point.

1. You have assumed a $20 log cannot be well thought. $20 is only the production cost. The well thought out part I can do myself. I have been in the marketing game a while now. If a client knows what they want, they only need to pay for production, not the the entire problem solving ensemble you might wish to sell to them.

2. I am asking, Can YOU (not the system or some article that talks in generalities) provide evidence to demonstrate that your logos will perform better for my bottom line than other designers.

If you yes, I would hire you every time.

If you no, all you do is make pretty pictures, no matter how much fluff you add into the process to validate your pricing model.

[BrettM33]

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NathanB, post: 133040 wrote:

You have missed the point.

1. You have assumed a $20 log cannot be well thought. $20 is only the production cost. The well thought out part I can do myself. I have been in the marketing game a while now. If a client knows what they want, they only need to pay for production, not the the entire problem solving ensemble you might wish to sell to them.

2. I am asking, Can YOU (not the system or some article that talks in generalities) provide evidence to demonstrate that your logos will perform better for my bottom line than other designers.

If you yes, I would hire you every time.

If you no, all you do is make pretty pictures, no matter how much fluff you add into the process to validate your pricing model.

There are things I could reply to in your post but frankly I give up, you are too set in your ways to see otherwise.

[NathanB]

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I’d much rather continue the discussion if you were willing.

I’m as a set in my was as the evidence at hand. I am aware I have made some bold claim and I am happy to be shown the light when/if I am wrong. So far rather than demonstrating anything you are asserting you are just attacking the thing I am asserting – You may as well be a Tony Abbot

All I have asked from you is to show me that you can demonstrate a bottom line or real world difference with all the additional processes you have that you have claimed are unavailable when out sourcing (when really they are).

You and other posters in the thread talk about the Odesk horror stories like they are the standard of the resource and then claim the the contractors simply don’t care about the clients and on top of this will almost always you use illegal obtained copyrighted stock rather than just do the work them selves. It’s the equivalent of me running around all claiming all Aussie agencies are over priced and out to rip you off because their all hipsters who want to sit around the office drinking fancy brand coffee. (which is not the case).

I am saying the future yields a new and tough breed of competition which is currently heavily focussed on price point and your answer to this is “yeh, their crap… trust me.”

[BrettM33]

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You said you weren’t interested in generalities such as the link I posted; I am personally not trying to sell you “logo design/production”, I am speaking in general, so that article I posted was fine IMO.

If getting a logo done properly didn’t affect a companies bottom line then why are so many companies spending big bucks on getting them done properly!?

[NathanB]

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CondorCreative, post: 133047 wrote:

You said you weren’t interested in generalities such as the link I posted; I am personally not trying to sell you “logo design/production”, I am speaking in general, so that article I posted was fine IMO.

If getting a logo done properly didn’t affect a companies bottom line then why are so many companies spending big bucks on getting them done properly!?

Great question.

The companies paying big for there logos aren’t buy logos. They are buying results. The results I have asked if you can demonstraight.

You think BP paid 3m for a logo on good faith it was the right thing do? I imagine there were some huge deliverables on that project.

I think that you have completely misunderstood me perhaps. I’m not playing down the value of having a good logo. I’m playing down the price people can charge for them unless the can demonstrate their value in a measurable way.

[BrettM33]

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NathanB, post: 133049 wrote:

Great question.

The companies paying big for there logos aren’t buy logos. They are buying results. The results I have asked if you can demonstraight.

You think BP paid 3m for a logo on good faith it was the right thing do? I imagine there were some huge deliverables on that project.

I think that you have completely misunderstood me perhaps. I’m not playing down the value of having a good logo. I’m playing down the price people can charge for them unless the can demonstrate their value in a measurable way.

Exactly, they are buying results and these places you like to get $20 logos from don’t do anything other than design the logo for you and that’s it.

I don’t think I ever said that paying $x amount for a logo was going to guarantee you results, but I have maintained that if you get one done by a professional than your chances of getting a well thought out logo and getting “results” will be FAR higher than if you get one from one of these places.

[NathanB]

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So none of the guys on Odesk are professional and none of them are capable of doing the things you do?

[BrettM33]

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NathanB, post: 133051 wrote:

So none of the guys on Odesk are professional and none of them are capable of doing the things you do?

I didn’t say that, I have said many times your chances at these places of finding someone like that is very slim and in the $20 range, practically 0%.

Tell me, of all the times you have used these places, has any of them tried to gain a detailed understanding of the business, your goals, what you are trying to portray to your customers and then done the necessary research required?

You may or may not tell them this ahead of time, but without giving them a chance to ask these details themselves you don’t know if they are going to utilise any of it or not.

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