Creating a logo….

[Zava Design]

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MatthewKeath, post: 133156 wrote:

Are talking about Nathan’s own site here? If so, you just lost the argument…
What’s the difference between someone believing a website is not as good/effective as it could be, and someone believing they can get the same quality logo for a far lower price? We are talking opinions at that level, no?

Anyway, it was the wrong thing to say on this particular forum, it wasn’t a nice thing to say in that way, so I do apologise for saying it, and if it offended anyone.

Meanwhile, I’ll wait on Nathan’s response to the single question I’ve asked him.

[MatthewKeath]

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Zava Design, post: 133158 wrote:

What’s the difference between someone believing a website is not as good/effective as it could be, and someone believing they can get the same quality logo for a far lower price? We are talking opinions at that level, no?

Anyway, it was the wrong thing to say on this particular forum, it wasn’t a nice thing to say in that way, so I do apologise for saying it, and if it offended anyone.

Meanwhile, I’ll wait on Nathan’s response to the single question I’ve asked him.It didn’t offend me, but Nathan showed a lot of class by sticking to the argument at hand rather than jumping onto your website and pointing out ways you could also have improved your work.

Using a footy analogy, play the ball not the man.

Back to the main discussion… (P.S, I love a bit of argy bargy )

[Zava Design]

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MatthewKeath, post: 133161 wrote:

It didn’t offend me, but Nathan showed a lot of class by sticking to the argument at hand rather than jumping onto your website and pointing out ways you could also have improved your work.
And I might argue that I was driven to respond in a particular way by a lack of class in actually acknowledging the many answers given to his questions. Just because you don’t like the answer given doesn’t mean it’s not a valid answer.

Meanwhile, he’s happy enough to “like” your posts, but avoiding answering the one question I’ve put to him after the many he’s put to me, that I at least attempted to answer. Ball’s in his court, to use a tennis analogy.

[NathanB]

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Zava Design, post: 133153 wrote:

Seriously, FFS.

That is a good questions… at a guess, I would say for many reasons.

1. You could be likeable, strange but true
2. Your work is judged by your clients as of a high standard.
3. You clients refer more work for you becuase they like/trust you and your results
4. Your clients rehire you, same reasons as point three…

Now, while I trust in all the above, I don’t know your client, how many you have how much they spend on you, what you tell they will get and what they actually get…

This is why I have asked OVER and OVER and OVER again, Can you demonstrate how you will achieve results with your work and what results you will achieve.

[NathanB]

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Zava Design, post: 133162 wrote:

And I might argue that I was driven to respond in a particular way by a lack of class in actually acknowledging the many answers given to his questions.

Of all the answers given,

None have been for my question.

[BrettM33]

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NathanB, post: 133140 wrote:

I have also been asking that as a professional that works in that space (albeit you outsource yourself to other locals).

What Outcomes can you or do you promise to differentiate yourself from the other designers out there?

I think Zava answered it well; however, this thread is not about differntiating myself from other professional designers, it’s actually quite the opposite, it’s about differing professional designers as a group from those on oDesk that offer “cheap” logos and I believe we have already covered the differences.

MatthewKeath, post: 133155 wrote:

Hi Condor.

Many web design companies use outsourced designers, as I know you do.

Can you tell me what is the difference between

a) Someone who asks (or knows if they are doing it themselves) all the right branding questions and outsources the work locally.

or

b) Someone who asks (or knows if they are doing it themselves) all the right branding questions and outsources the work on odesk.

Thanks

Hi Matt,

The difference isn’t the service used, the difference is WHO you use. I have said many times it’s not impossible to get a good logo on oDesk, but the general practice on these sites is that you won’t.

So, if by chance you outsource to someone on there that IS a qualified professional and offers all the things a local professional might offer, then there is no difference – apart from the possibility legalities of it all if there is a problem such as copyright infringement – far easier to track down an Australian company (or registered business in a non-third world country) and make them accountable vs some random person on oDesk.

[bridiej]

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NathanB, post: 133136 wrote:

No, it has been about the professionals that are 15 times to price being able to demonstrating they are WORTH 15 times the price.

Let me give you an example about a cheap offshore company vs me.

I had an enquiry for transcription, provided my quote and the potential client (PC) decided to instead use an offshore company who were charging $1 per recorded minute (less than half of what I charge).

A few months later, this PC was back because the transcripts he’d received were quite frankly awful.

I took a look at the other company’s website. They basically take an audio file and break it down into segments, all just a few minutes long. It’s then sent out to multiple transcriptionists who each do their own little segment (and get paid a pittance to do so). The segments are then put together and (allegedly) checked against the original audio before the transcript is sent to the client. If the company/transcribers aren’t used to European/Australian accents etc. then the transcript will be returned with lots of missing words, wrong words and require the client to waste time filling in the blanks.

If you use my service your entire audio file is transcribed by one transcriber (possibly me, possibly one of my small team who are paid a decent rate to do so) then listened to against the original audio (by me). If there are words/names/jargon I’m unsure of I’ll research on Google to see if I can discover them – 9 times out of 10 I do. Since I’ve been doing this for a decade I’m used to most accents and varying audio qualities, so unless the recording is particularly poor you’ll have very few missing words, if any.

I’ve had a number of other clients who have tried the cheap route, all of whom have been amazed at the quality of the transcripts I’ve sent them.

Do I care about the cheap options on Odesk etc.? Well, yes I do because there are many people out there making do with inferior transcripts because they don’t realise the value of spending more than $2 per audio hour getting them transcribed, and I feel the inferior results people are getting reflects badly on the industry as a whole.

Sure, there no doubt is the odd freelancer on there who actually does have experience and know what they’re doing, the but majority certainly do not. Transcription isn’t something just anyone can do – I’ve had people who’ve worked for years as legal secretaries give it a go and they haven’t been able to work with multiple voices, different accents, etc. as they’re used to transcribing the same single voice day in, day out.

I realise that this thread is about logos and design, but hopefully my example answers your question.

[Zava Design]

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NathanB, post: 133163 wrote:

This is why I have asked OVER and OVER and OVER again, Can you demonstrate how you will achieve results with your work and what results you will achieve.
If you were a legitimate prospect, I would provide you with client contacts and you could ask them yourself. The best evidence of what I – or anyone else – can do for you is what I have done for clients in the past. Words are meaningless, the proof is in the pudding. Pretty simple really.

Of all the answers given,
None have been for my question.

Incorrect. None have been to your liking. Very different.

[Zava Design]

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bridiej, post: 133166 wrote:

I realise that this thread is about logos and design, but hopefully my example answers your question.
Nope, great case study example! Something else I’d like to add to my site if I ever get the time (though client reference contacts are of a similar nature).

[NathanB]

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bridiej, post: 133166 wrote:

Let me give you an example about a cheap offshore company vs me.

I had an enquiry for transcription, provided my quote and the potential client (PC) decided to instead use an offshore company who were charging $1 per recorded minute (less than half of what I charge).

A few months later, this PC was back because the transcripts he’d received were quite frankly awful.

This is a great example.

1. You received a enquiry and the client ended up choosing a cheaper option. WHY? Because you were unable to effectively demonstrate to them why you were the best option at the time.

Yes they went and got burned, and then came back to you… but you could have avoided ALL of that by being able to compel the prospective client in the first place. The only reason you got this business was because the first guy failed.

If he didn’t fail, you wouldn’t have gotten the business at all.

[NathanB]

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Zava Design, post: 133168 wrote:

Incorrect. None have been to your liking. Very different.

Sadly no,

YOu have lectured me on the finer points of good design, good client relationships and even how average my own site is, yet not once have you enlightened me as to how you demonstrate anything you can do WILL be remotely better or worth anything I can hire anyone else to do.

[bridiej]

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NathanB, post: 133171 wrote:

This is a great example.

1. You received a enquiry and the client ended up choosing a cheaper option. WHY? Because you were unable to effectively demonstrate to them why you were the best option at the time.

Yes they went and got burned, and then came back to you… but you could have avoided ALL of that by being able to compel the prospective client in the first place. The only reason you got this business was because the first guy failed.

If he didn’t fail, you wouldn’t have gotten the business at all.

Right…. :rolleyes:

[Zava Design]

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NathanB, post: 133172 wrote:

Sadly no,

YOu have lectured me on the finer points of good design, good client relationships and even how average my own site is, yet not once have you enlightened me as to how you demonstrate anything you can do WILL be remotely better or worth anything I can hire anyone else to do.
Oh you know what, you’re right, and you’ve been right all along. I guess I suck as a salesperson, in which case I guess I’m pretty lucky that my clients do not…

[NathanB]

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bridiej, post: 133173 wrote:

Right…. :rolleyes:

Seriously…

I am not saying you weren’t the best option, clearly you were.

I am just saying you couldn’t convince the client, and that’s not the clients problem. That’s something you need to address in order the win the client, first time every time.

[bridiej]

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NathanB, post: 133175 wrote:

Seriously…

I am not saying you weren’t the best option, clearly you were.

I am just saying you couldn’t convince the client, and that’s not the clients problem. That’s something you need to address in order the win the client, first time every time.

Considering my conversion rate is over 75%, I’ll stick with what I’m doing thanks.

Over and out.

[Author]

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