Home Forums Marketing mastery Creating a logo….

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  • #1118258
    NathanB
    Member
    • Total posts: 775
    Zava Design, post: 133174 wrote:
    Oh you know what, you’re right, and you’ve been right all along. I guess I suck as a salesperson, in which case I guess I’m pretty lucky that my clients do not…

    How about instead of the sarcasm, we talk about the things you do that help you get those sales…

    That’a all I am asking for :)

    No need for all the attitude you are throwing in.

    #1118259
    Zava Design
    Participant
    • Total posts: 1,461
    NathanB, post: 133177 wrote:
    How about instead of the sarcasm,
    Tell you what, I’ll drop the sarcasm if you actually try to comprehend a little more, since I don’t know how often I have to repeat…

    we talk about the things you do that help you get those sales…

    My clients. My previous work.

    Your questions have been answered many times. Just because you don’t like the answers doesn’t make them any less valid. So either ask some new questions, or this thread is done.

    #1118260
    MatthewKeath
    Member
    • Total posts: 3,184
    CondorCreative, post: 133165 wrote:
    I think Zava answered it well; however, this thread is not about differntiating myself from other professional designers, it’s actually quite the opposite, it’s about differing professional designers as a group from those on oDesk that offer “cheap” logos and I believe we have already covered the differences.

    Hi Matt,

    The difference isn’t the service used, the difference is WHO you use. I have said many times it’s not impossible to get a good logo on oDesk, but the general practice on these sites is that you won’t.

    So, if by chance you outsource to someone on there that IS a qualified professional and offers all the things a local professional might offer, then there is no difference – apart from the possibility legalities of it all if there is a problem such as copyright infringement – far easier to track down an Australian company (or registered business in a non-third world country) and make them accountable vs some random person on oDesk.Thanks. I’m pretty sure that sums up the whole argument that Nathan has made.

    A good designer is a good designer, doesn’t matter where their found and how much they charge.

    Personally, I would never recommend a client go to a designer to get a logo in the first place. You need someone with branding and marketing experience to ask the right questions and produce a detailed brief for the designer to work from. Then to oversee the project so that its done right. It’s a specialist area. We were recently engaged to produce a logo and we ballsed it up because the brief was not done right.

    #1118261
    NathanB
    Member
    • Total posts: 775
    Zava Design, post: 133181 wrote:
    Tell you what, I’ll drop the sarcasm if you actually try to comprehend a little more, since I don’t know how often I have to repeat…

    My clients. My previous work.

    Your questions have been answered many times. Just because you don’t like the answers doesn’t make them any less valid. So either ask some new questions, or this thread is done.

    It must be difficult for you to live in this world with people like me and forums like FS that sensor you and won’t let you level you your own personal brand or superiority and morality onto the lowly mortals :)

    Why are you still here?

    Your answers,

    My clients, my previous work are all well and good… but how did secure those guys in the first place…did you make them pretty pictures or did you work with them to achieved increased sales or brand market share…

    #1118262
    NathanB
    Member
    • Total posts: 775
    MatthewKeath, post: 133184 wrote:
    A good designer is a good designer, doesn’t matter where their found and how much they charge.

    .

    SHUT UP MATT! I wanted to make that point at the end.

    You ruined all my fun.

    hahahaha :)

    #1118263
    Zava Design
    Participant
    • Total posts: 1,461
    MatthewKeath, post: 133184 wrote:
    A good designer is a good designer, doesn’t matter where their found and how much they charge.
    I don’t think anyone’s said anything otherwise. All that’s been said re location is that it’s far more difficult to find quality from places like Odesk, not least due to the focus on price.
    #1118264
    Zava Design
    Participant
    • Total posts: 1,461
    NathanB, post: 133185 wrote:
    It must be difficult for you to live in this world with people like me and forums like FS that sensor you and won’t let you level you your own personal brand or superiority and morality onto the lowly mortals :)
    And I guess you must feel a great loss at not getting the particular answers you wanted me or anyone else to write. Damn I hate that people are so different than me!

    Quote:
    but how did secure those guys in the first place…did you make them pretty pictures or did you work with them to achieved increased sales or brand market share…
    I guess that’s going to remain one of life’s great mysteries for you…
    #1118265
    NathanB
    Member
    • Total posts: 775
    Zava Design, post: 133188 wrote:
    And I guess you must feel a great loss at not getting the particular answers you wanted me or anyone else to write.

    I guess that’s going to remain one of life’s great mysteries for you…

    Not really.

    I enjoy discussions like this (hence why it is still going despite your attitude). It’s sad that you started to let your frustrations into the discussion and attack me personally but it was still fun none the less.

    I think the best point I provided (take it or leave) was when Bridgie talked about a client that went to a cheaper option and then came back

    If she had clearly defined measures in place that validate her value, she would win the first time every time and price point wouldn’t be a factor in whether or not she was picked with the exception of those that just couldn’t have afforded her service in the first place.

    Bottom line is. 250K jobs contracts went to Odesk last quarter (not all from OZ) but who knows how much of that work could have stayed here if the Locals could make themselves are more appealing option, not just the fall back option.

    #1118266
    Zava Design
    Participant
    • Total posts: 1,461
    NathanB, post: 133189 wrote:
    I enjoy discussions like this (hence why it is still going despite your attitude). It’s sad that you started to let your frustrations into the discussion and attack me personally but it was still fun none the less.
    And I’m surprised that you would think continuing to badger someone with the same questions again and again and again just because you don’t like the answer that’s been given (multiple times) wouldn’t cause a reaction of some kind.

    Chicken or egg?

    If she had clearly defined measures in place that validate her value, she would win the first time every time and price point wouldn’t be a factor in whether or not she was picked with the exception of those that just couldn’t have afforded her service in the first place.

    Such a crock of shit (excuse the French). No one can close a sale each and every time. If she has a 75% success rate she’s not doing much wrong in her sales process imho. Just because no one chooses to lay out their entire sales process on a public forum has no reflection on what their actual sales process may be like. You seem to have forgotten the channel and environment being utilised for this discussion, something I would expect a marketing/communications person to take into consideration.

    #1118267
    NathanB
    Member
    • Total posts: 775
    Zava Design, post: 133190 wrote:
    Such a crock of shit (excuse the French). No one can close a sale each and every time. If she has a 75% success rate she’s not doing much wrong in her sales process imho. Just because no one chooses to lay out their entire sales process on a public forum has no reflection on what their actual sales process may be like. You seem to have forgotten the channel and environment being utilised for this discussion, something I would expect a marketing/communications person to take into consideration.

    I’m not saying close every sale…

    I am saying if you can identify a reason clients aren’t choosing you, maybe you can address it. Im not just talking about inbound leads, how many people open and close your site thinking “it’s not what I want” and with out making an enquiry when really you could be perfect for their needs.

    I haven’t forgotten what this channel is for, hence why I continue to question, converse while refraining from joining you in the attitude you have presented :)

    #1118268
    LuckyDip
    Member
    • Total posts: 50

    If I recall correctly, at the start of this thread someone used BP as an example – something along the lines of why did they pay millions for their logo?

    Well, originally Nike only paid $35 – is that a poorly thought out logo?

    Here’s an interesting link with more examples… How much did these iconic logos cost?

    I know there’s a better article out there somewhere but I can’t find it in my bookmarks at the moment, but just because a logo is cheap doesn’t automatically mean it is bad.

    Paying more for something does not necessarily equal better quality. A high price can however be effective for creating a perception of quality and building an aspirational brand.

    #1118269
    NathanB
    Member
    • Total posts: 775
    LuckyDip, post: 133197 wrote:
    If I recall correctly, at the start of this thread someone used BP as an example – something along the lines of why did they pay millions for their logo?

    Well, originally Nike only paid $35 – is that a poorly thought out logo?

    Here’s an interesting link with more examples… How much did these iconic logos cost?

    I know there’s a better article out there somewhere but I can’t find it in my bookmarks at the moment, but just because a logo is cheap doesn’t automatically mean it is bad.

    Paying more for something does not necessarily equal better quality. A high price can however be effective for creating a perception of quality and building an aspirational brand.

    Cheers Lucky Dip, interesting stuff. :)

    I didn’t know that little tid-bit about Nike.

    #1118270
    BrettM33
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,372
    NathanB, post: 133175 wrote:
    Seriously…

    I am not saying you weren’t the best option, clearly you were.

    I am just saying you couldn’t convince the client, and that’s not the clients problem. That’s something you need to address in order the win the client, first time every time.

    :)

    Seriously, why waste the time and energy trying to convince cost critical clients to take on your service? From this thread alone you can see how tiring and useless it is; you are far better off focusing that energy and time on clients who appreciate the effort a good designer/transcriber puts in.

    Zava Design, post: 133187 wrote:
    I don’t think anyone’s said anything otherwise. All that’s been said re location is that it’s far more difficult to find quality from places like Odesk, not least due to the focus on price.

    Pretty much what I was going to say once again.

    LuckyDip, post: 133197 wrote:
    If I recall correctly, at the start of this thread someone used BP as an example – something along the lines of why did they pay millions for their logo?

    Well, originally Nike only paid $35 – is that a poorly thought out logo?

    Here’s an interesting link with more examples… How much did these iconic logos cost?

    I know there’s a better article out there somewhere but I can’t find it in my bookmarks at the moment, but just because a logo is cheap doesn’t automatically mean it is bad.

    Paying more for something does not necessarily equal better quality. A high price can however be effective for creating a perception of quality and building an aspirational brand.

    I don’ think a comparison from 1971 is very valid lol; additionally, he paid her for an icon, not for her to do a logo design. ;)

    #1118271
    NathanB
    Member
    • Total posts: 775
    CondorCreative, post: 133200 wrote:
    Seriously, why waste the time and energy trying to convince cost critical clients to take on your service? From this thread alone you can see how tiring and useless it is; you are far better off focusing that energy and time on clients who appreciate the effort a good designer/transcriber puts in.

    I imagine when BP paid 3.4m for their logo there were nothing but cost critical and didn’t just appreciate “a good designer”.

    The reason agencies/designers win such accounts is because they demonstrate their value. Simple as that.

    #1118272
    BrettM33
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,372
    NathanB, post: 133207 wrote:
    I imagine when BP paid 3.4m for their logo there were nothing but cost critical and didn’t just appreciate “a good designer”.

    The reason agencies/designers win such accounts is because they demonstrate their value. Simple as that.

    Obviously cost wasn’t critical as they spent $4.6M (not $3.4M) on their logo production, not $20. ;)

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