Home – New Forums Other discussions Designers… what do you think of them?

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  • #1013111
    Anonymous
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    LeelaCosgrove, post: 14373 wrote:
    EVERYONE knows the generality of what a graphic designer does … that’s like primary school general knowledge …

    Well I’ve had to explain it to some people believe it or not.

    #1013112
    soliddata
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    Interesting approach to a topic.

    I have found in business (it took me a while to learn of course) that it is best to get experts to do the things they are good at.

    So when getting branding and stationery items done it was better to get them done by a professional.

    The reasons I ended up using a graphic designer in general:
    – I could see that their work was a million times more creative than mine;
    – printers needed work done in ways I couldn’t provide (when I needed to get away from digital into bigger print run from offset printers)

    The reasons I chose specific ones:
    – recommendations from colleagues
    – great portfolios
    – recommendations from colleagues

    After I hired them, I found the best ones worked with me, asked lots of questions, provided multiple options etc.

    Does that help?

    Kevin

    #1013113
    Anonymous
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    Kevin- yes and no.

    But you do raise another issue. What makes people think they can do design work, when they don’t have the skills or knowledge to do it properly?

    #1013114
    Renee Barber
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    dan, post: 14458 wrote:
    Kevin- yes and no.

    But you do raise another issue. What makes people think they can do design work, when they don’t have the skills or knowledge to do it properly?

    I have a couple answers to that question:

    • Clip art/Wordart
    • Microsoft Publisher
    • FrontPage
    • Spending Money

    I believe that a lot of people give design a go because there are so many tools on the market that are becoming quite affordable and also because most people don’t realise that design (good design anyway) is about marketing too.

    Business people don’t just want a pretty design or lots of words that people forget as soon as their eyes leave the page. They want/NEED design and copy that SELLS.

    If you find a designer/writer that gets the whole picture: eye-catching design + copy that sells, which really requires some understanding of consumer behaviour and a number of other disciplines, HIRE THEM!

    #1013115
    Anonymous
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    Publisher and front page are rubbish. Something clients don’t realise.
    Clip art is cheap, unoriginal and doesn’t solve the problem effectively.
    I understand the money issue. Although at times I wish people/clients would try to see design as an investment in their biz, rather than just a cost. But that’s a separate discussion.

    Renee Barber, post: 14466 wrote:
    I believe that a lot of people give design a go because there are so many tools on the market

    Having the tools doesn’t make anyone a designer. If I want to do some carpentry, I can go to Bunnings and buy all the tools I want. But that doesn’t make me a carpenter.

    #1013116
    Renee Barber
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    dan, post: 14469 wrote:
    Publisher and front page are rubbish. Something clients don’t realise.
    Clip art is cheap, unoriginal and doesn’t solve the problem effectively.
    I understand the money issue. Although at times I wish people/clients would try to see design as an investment in their biz, rather than just a cost. But that’s a separate discussion.

    Having the tools doesn’t make anyone a designer. If I want to do some carpentry, I can go to Bunnings and buy all the tools I want. But that doesn’t make me a carpenter.

    Dan, I’m a designer so you won’t get any (well many, hehe) arguments from me. I’m just telling you what MANY people think.

    I work on the principle that I want to work with people who value good design and the mix I bring to it (marketing, editing, writing, consumer behaviour knowledge, etc.) If they don’t value that, they’re welcome to create items themselves, things that in many cases only a mother would love. Everyone has choices. :)

    #1013117
    LeelaCosgrove
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    Renee Barber, post: 14466 wrote:
    Business people don’t just want a pretty design or lots of words that people forget as soon as their eyes leave the page. They want/NEED design and copy that SELLS.

    Amen!

    So much so that most business people don’t even care how or what you do – as long as you get them that outcome … (self is included!) … if more designers focused on this they’d get a lot more work … same with writers … it’s not about what you DO … it’s about the RESULTS you get for your clients.

    #1013118
    BB
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    dan, post: 14469 wrote:
    Having the tools doesn’t make anyone a designer. If I want to do some carpentry, I can go to Bunnings and buy all the tools I want. But that doesn’t make me a carpenter.

    Exactly !

    And if you needed to get your finances in order would you call in a ‘budget specialist’ or would you think you “know all that anyway, and don’t need somebody to tell me how!” (in which case – why aren’t you doing it?)

    Let’s face it – you can get any information you want from online and other sources. Unless people see the value of what you do – you won’t get a start!

    And of course – “people don’t care how much you know, until they know how much you care”

    Cheers,

    B.B.

    #1013119
    pado
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    Hi Dan, looks like you have evoked a lot of reactions from peoples good/bad experiences with designers. I wish you all the best with your business.

    For my 2 cents worth, because someone calls themselves a designer doesnt mean anything, from my experience interviewing approx 40 designers over the past 5 years, you either have it or you dont, there is an innate ability to be creative that you cant teach. Anyone can learn to use design programs like photoshop and illustrator and get a degree in design but doesnt mean they have the creative talent to be a good designer. Its something they are born with, they are artists.

    The best designers are just that, designers, they shouldnt need to have the skills to write copy etc, they come up with the creation, the image and style. The team around them decide on the copy, marketing, unique selling point and the designer uses their skills to bring that vision to life. You need a great team at a design agency who each skilled at their own areas, design, marketing, copy etc.

    thats enough of a ramble, a good designer is more valuable than gold, the problem is the bad ones give the good ones a bad name.

    – greg

    #1013120
    Anonymous
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    Thanks Greg.

    Like your site. Simple and effective. Good work. But check your links as some give 404’s.

    #1013121
    Renee Barber
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    pado, post: 14498 wrote:
    The best designers are just that, designers, they shouldnt need to have the skills to write copy etc, they come up with the creation, the image and style. The team around them decide on the copy, marketing, unique selling point and the designer uses their skills to bring that vision to life. You need a great team at a design agency who each skilled at their own areas, design, marketing, copy etc.

    thats enough of a ramble, a good designer is more valuable than gold, the problem is the bad ones give the good ones a bad name.

    – greg

    Hi Greg

    I do get where you’re coming from in that most people cannot truly excel at a lot of different areas at once. However, as a communications all-rounder (writer, editor, designer and marketer), I’ve found that my clients love that I have so many disciplines in my toolkit.

    While we’re talking about it, I’ve found that most small businesses cannot afford an agency where everyone is a specialist. Therefore, the value I offer to my clients is that I have a wide range of skills to employ on each project and, if I don’t have it, I know people who do.

    I know people get riled up because other people reckon they can do the first person’s job without the education and experience, but people are people. If they think they can save a buck by doing it themselves (whether it’s SEO, designing a flyer or whatever), they will probably continue to do so until they are convinced that their bottom line will be improved by using a professional.

    Frankly, I don’t waste a lot of time worrying about the businesses who don’t get ‘it’. I use my energy on working with clients who do.

    #1013122
    FionaFell
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    1) Do you understand what a graphic designer does and how they work?

    I think I do, I imagine it is awfully similar to how I work when doing website design. (Design only, not any geeky behind the scenes development)

    2) What’s your perception of them?

    I have met and worked with a range of ‘OK’ graphics designers who thought the project started and ended with how pretty it was, and some others that quickly clued on that their input was ‘part of the puzzle’ to effective communication and sales. (Some of the first group may have been greatly influenced by the ‘personality type’ that they were as individuals)

    3) What is the most important aspects you look for in deciding to hire one?

    Their ability to follow through and complete the tasks that they say they can do. (This is the same request I have of all professional service providers I want to work with)

    4) After you hire one, what’s your expectations?

    They they will execute and complete the tasks mentioned above. And do so professionaly, without taking constructive critism personally when “my ideas”, “their ideas” and “my customers expectations/reactions” aren’t quite aligned and a revision or two is required (With appropriate $$ provided)

    I hope you have found some value in my comments above and they help you make your business better.

    #1013123
    pado
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    Hey Renee, If you have all those skills and are good at all of them then I think thats great, you can look after the client without having to employ more people with those skills.

    Personally I found that an amazing designer is hard to find and most of the time do not possess those other skills. That is why for our situtation we work as a team to complement each others skills.

    I agree with your third point, good luck to those that design themselves, in fact we encourage it for those that want to save money and provide support for them to help them with their design, in the end the better the design they create, the better the return they will get in customers and that is what we are after, helping small business succeed.

    thanks, Greg

    #1013124
    Adam Randall
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    I think of them the same way as any professional, they are the people I would go to if I wanted a good design.

    The material they work with is more subjective which in my mind would make it infinitely harder to deal with on a daily basis. Its also very hard to quantify a successful design in financial terms. How would you know its a success?

    A good designer is rarely born (some are) its just they do it 8 hours a day 5 days a week which by default will make them better than the average person who does not spend that amount of time per week on design work.

    Its just like laying tiles, do I do the job myself to prove a point that it aint that hard, make some fundemental mistakes through lack of training then fool myself into thinking its a good job or do I get a pro to do a job that looks better than mine and has taken quarter the time?

    #1013125
    Matt Milgrom
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    An interesting discussion, no question. As a career-change designer, I thought I’d wade in…

    People often confuse design with art. Sadly, average designers are guilty of this.

    Design is all about THINKING. It’s about understanding the business problem/opportunity which has been presented, and then offering the best visual solution to it. It’s also about COMMUNICATING – especially listening and asking questions.

    It’s not just about pretty pictures – although that often comes into it.

    My background is running large IT projects within international corporations. Before re-skilling and feeding my creative passion, my world was business, not design. The disciplines, however, are closely linked. It’s all about outcomes.

    I work with career designers on a regular basis and have noticed (especially at agencies) that they rely on others to truly understand the client and his business problem, and on a very specific creative brief. Many of them would struggle to create one themselves, however, and know only how to please their art director.

    Personally, I’m not the most talented designer on the planet. I rarely push the ‘edgy’ envelope. I’m unlikely to ever have a retrospective at the MCA. However, I keep my clients happy by listening well, thinking carefully and focusing on results as I follow fundamental design principles.

    Occasionally I might make a pretty picture. ;-)

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