Home Forums Starting your journey Distressed, after 5 months of planning owner changes mind about lease!

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  • #970582
    Jazzah
    Member
    • Total posts: 193

    Hi,

    I don’t know what to do. We have been in the process of obtaining council planning permits for a property that we were to lease. We started this back in June. The owner has seen all drafted plans, planning application etc every step of the way.

    Today they have said no to a lease, we are just at the last stages of advertising with the council.

    They cited a whole lot of reasons, like it will impact on a building they want to build next door, they are worried about asbestos and kids (we had an asbestos audit clear this), they didn’t agree to so much space for car parking…..it goes on.

    But we have spent nearly $5000! Can he do this? After working on it since 28th June? We have paid planning consultants, purchased shop fittings etc! Even this morning at the agents he agreed to wait for us.

    Any advice appreciated.

    Jazzah

    #1045060
    Past-Member
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,815

    I am sorry to hear of your dilemma. Please get legal advice. Were there contracts in place? Regardless, please get someone you trust legally to negotiate for you if necessary or at least find out why things have not gone your way in order not to go through this again.

    #1045061
    DavidM
    Member
    • Total posts: 329

    Hi Jazzah,

    That sounds terrible. I’m with Karen. Make sure you understand your rights. Also understand that there are two reasons people do things:

    1. The reason they say
    2. The real reason

    Try and uncover the real reason for the objection and position yourself to show how you’re going to overcome this. Be aware that the owner isn’t going to tell you the real reason outright, you need to do some digging. What’s changed in the last few days? Maybe his/her spouse has plans for it. Maybe s/he needs more time to think because of some big event in their lives.

    If nothing seems to work, at the very least perhaps ask if you can give him/her some breathing space for two weeks and come back when you both have fresh eyes as this is a dream you’ve had for x years.

    Keeping lawyers out of it (on the surface) will help settle things quicker, cheaper and more amicably.

    Good luck,

    #1045062
    Jazzah
    Member
    • Total posts: 193

    Well it turns out that the owner wants to put his mechanics workshop in the storage shed he has a permit for on land next to the building we were having and he didn’t think that there would be sufficient car parking for him, after the spaces we use.

    I am just furious, he received our site plans 2 months ago, before we spent $5200 on a planning consultant, planning fees, site drawing and an asbestos report.

    We sought legal advice and there is nothing we can do, as we had not signed a lease and they did not think our discussions were sufficient to demonstrate that we had a common law lease, without the written one. They said given we were still negotiating repairs and work to the site, they could not argue we had an agreement. Mind you, it was clear until the owner started changing his mind and saying he wanted more money to do the things he agreed to months prior.

    So we have lost our start up money, we have shop fittings and equipment that we bought that we are not sure will fit at another site. That is if we find another one.

    I saw another one but owners are reluctant to wait for the time it takes for planning permits and sign a contract subject to approved planning permits. So it is a really catch. What have others done?

    Jazzah (who is about to give up on all of it)

    #1045063
    melmis
    Member
    • Total posts: 14

    Don’t give up just move forward and try and learn something from this and keep going with your goals.
    Having/wanting your own business always comes with hurdles/mistakes but push on and it also comes with many rewards for your efforts.

    #1045064
    AgentMail
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,741

    Hi Jazzah,

    Don’t give up. Is there anyway you can find a site that already has the necessary permits/requirements that could save you the cost of this again?
    In business, you will unfortunately have to take some knocks, and whilst I fully appreciate that you feel disallusioned at this point, if you can push through, you will look back on this and laugh, one day.

    #1045065
    DavidM
    Member
    • Total posts: 329

    Hi Jazzah,

    Argh, that’s not good. If the owner knew you were investing money in permits/setup and did not tell you he was having second thoughts, then he didn’t do the right thing by you.

    Yes, this is a setback for you, but I’m sure the enthusiastic small business owner in you will get back on the horse and look for other opportunities.

    Good luck for the future.

    #1045066
    GetYerOwnBin
    Member
    • Total posts: 58

    I am just furious, he received our site plans 2 months ago, before we spent $5200 on a planning consultant, planning fees, site drawing and an asbestos report.

    ….So we have lost our start up money, we have shop fittings and equipment that we bought…

    I’m just wondering why you not only submitted site plans but also proceeded to do all of the above when you didn’t have a lease. The owner is under no obligation to give you an undertaking or advise you of his plans without one. So, $5200 is an expensive lesson to learn.

    Hopefully you’ll be able to recoup your costs at your next site – after you’ve signed the lease.

    #1045067
    Anonymous
    Guest
    • Total posts: 11,465

    Hi Jazzah,

    I hope you can find it in you to take a deep breath, perhaps a little time off to contemplate what you’d do differently next time, and then get back out there and find new premises that are even better than the ones you’ve lost.

    I for one am grateful that you didn’t end up with this person for a landlord… being tied into a lease with someone who it turned out you couldn’t trust would have cost you a lot more than that in terms of grief and hassle, I reckon.

    Onwards and upwards. Keep us posted as to how you get on.

    Best wishes,
    Jayne

    #1045068
    Jazzah
    Member
    • Total posts: 193

    “I’m just wondering why you not only submitted site plans but also proceeded to do all of the above when you didn’t have a lease.”

    Because I have never done this before, I was nervous about signing a lease without knowing if our permits would go through. A few months ago they mentioned a lease with a clause about the permits and I said, that was fine, but I didn’t push, I just wanted to get a feel of councils reaction to the application. We had been told they were one of the most unreasonable councils in Melbourne.

    But you know what else, I trusted the owner, I had a key, he allowed me to come and go to measure things, we spoke at least weekly, he never raised these issues til the last week or so, when I said I thought we should meet with the agent to sort it out. So my lesson as sad as it is, is to never trust someones word. Get it in writing and get a solicitor to check it before I add my pen mark to it. What a horrible world we really live in sometimes.

    Jazzah

    #1045069
    Leisa D
    Member
    • Total posts: 563

    I’m with Jayne – I think the landlord pullingout at this stage is a blessing in disguise – now you don’t have to deal with this person in the longer term, and have the opportunity to find a BETTER spot.

    #1045070
    e-SSENT
    Member
    • Total posts: 46
    Jazzah, post: 57336 wrote:
    “I’m just wondering why you not only submitted site plans but also proceeded to do all of the above when you didn’t have a lease.”

    Because I have never done this before, I was nervous about signing a lease without knowing if our permits would go through. A few months ago they mentioned a lease with a clause about the permits and I said, that was fine, but I didn’t push, I just wanted to get a feel of councils reaction to the application. We had been told they were one of the most unreasonable councils in Melbourne.

    But you know what else, I trusted the owner, I had a key, he allowed me to come and go to measure things, we spoke at least weekly, he never raised these issues til the last week or so, when I said I thought we should meet with the agent to sort it out. So my lesson as sad as it is, is to never trust someones word. Get it in writing and get a solicitor to check it before I add my pen mark to it. What a horrible world we really live in sometimes.

    Jazzah

    Jazzah, I’m so sorry this has happened to you. $5200 is a LOT of money for people starting out like us and the broken trust must sting just as much as your lower bank account. You can’t give up now though, you’re letting him win if you do. I really hope you find something soon and it’s a much better experience.

    All the best.

    #1045071
    Avatar Consulting
    Member
    • Total posts: 151

    Commercial leasing is a big step for new business owners

    Hi Jazzah

    This happens more often than you think and it is a valuable, if not costly, lesson to learn in your business development.

    When you commence leasing plans you should check;

    • Leasing Act 2003 [Or relevant one for your state] to see what the legal requirements of leasing are
    • Go online to review the Legal requirements for leasing. Eg in Victoria you have the Small Business Commissionar who helps protect business owners from dodgy landlords
    • Wait until the lease is signed before spending unecessary money. Ensure there is a clause stating the lease is only valid upon council approvals obtained after the lease signing. Most reputatable agents will do this
    • Create a seperate contract between you and the owner before the lease is signed stating that you are applying for permits etc and the owner will need to compensate you for any money/ damages if they exit the lease process with you

    Normally you would have done your background research on what the process for council permits are before looking for a lease so you now how difficult the leasing would have been.

    As a side note, it is important when you sign a lease that you KNOW what businesses are taking the leases next to yours. Imagine if a Tattoo parlour or spray painter opened up right next to your Meditation business?

    You have very little say after the lease is signed, so do your research first

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