Home – New Forums Marketing mastery finally an explanation behind my dislike of facebook

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #988035
    Divert To Mobile
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,751
    Up
    0
    ::

    A few years ago during what I believe was the steepest gradient of the fb popularity curve I experimented with paid fb advertising. I budgeted $100 and created a few fb campaigns. I targeted the advertising geographically and by age and by interest.

    Yes the page got likes, but no sales were made. So I looked closer at the likers and they looked a little odd. They didnt really look like real people, they didnt post much but they sure liked a lot of stuff. The experience felt fake enough to me so when the budget ran out I didnt continue. In fact I have been turned off completely. Another strange thing that was happening was the pay per click rate was inexplicably increasing. The rate started at 15c per click and in less than 2 weeks it had reached $1.00 per click or the add wouldnt even show.

    This morning Ive been watching some youtube videos and stumbled upon this one. This fellow has the time to investigate and gets to the bottom of it. It has reinforced my opinion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVfHeWTKjag
    I’m sharing it with you all as it might be of some value to you.

    Steve

    #1165341
    Greg_M
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,691
    Up
    0
    ::

    As always, you’re on the ball.

    Loved the video. Goes to show nothing is as simple as it looks in the online world, and it’s not a place to play “follow the leader” blindly.

    There’s no implications for me, I’ve always found Facebook to be finger down throat material, at any level.

    But this is great info for anyone tying it into their business model.

    #1165342
    Stuart B
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,070
    Up
    0
    ::

    I think facebook likely gives new advertisers a cheaper rate for likes / views etc and I think that’s a smart move. I found that myself when I started advertising.

    However let’s not blame everything on FB here. Though you’ve probably come out of “baby mode” the reason why your ads will continue to escale in price is due to ad fatigue. IF they’re not getting clicks they’ll be scored lower and thus be more expensive to serve. FB ads are not a set & forget activity. You should always be measuring and refining your work.

    Similarly if your followers aren’t converting then it’s more likely a problem with the material you’re posting outside of your ads. If you’re missing the mark with that then yeah nobody will buy stuff.

    Many people make the mistake of thinking they can buy followers and then smash sales material into their heads and think they’ll just hand over money. I’m sorry to day it doesn’t work like that. People DO NOT follow brands because they want to get their sales material every day. They follow for emotional reasons, and if you’re not giving them the right material it won’t happen.

    To be honest $100 isn’t a large sample size either. If you blew your budget and then stopped FB activity soon after then it’s not surprising why there were no conversions, because there probably wasn’t much time to refine your approach.

    I have a client who’s customer base was acquired almost entirely from Facebook and those customers generate over $20k in sales each month. So it certainly does work.

    #1165343
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    Up
    0
    ::

    Hi Steve,
    Your posts are always of value and this is one of your more thought provoking ones.

    Having watched the video with interest, it prompted me to delve a little deeper into the topic.

    At this point, I need to ‘fess up to being a Facebook “likes” sceptic of the first order but I also know that very often web marketing problems fall into the categories of poor results interpretation or poor implementation rather than an inherent flaw in the medium (Facebook).

    Here are a couple of other articles I subsequently found of interest.

    Feb 2014: Facebook Fraud Response: Are Facebook Ads a Waste of Money?

    Apr 2014: Giving Advertisers a Way to Bypass Facebook Click Fraud

    At this point I’m in the school of thought where I accept that there is a lot of Facebook click fraud. I’m also of the opinion that much of it may be self inflicted by the advertisers.

    Perhaps we should expand the discussion into Google click fraud and the rates of mobile phone ad clicks by accident?

    We used to get Google click fraud reports regularly from Click Forensics. Then Google bought the company…

    May 2014: Google acquires the company it previously discredited: Click Forensics

    Seems Google click fraud is currently estimated at 17-29%.

    Then you have very large accidental clicks on mobile phones and a bunch of click fraud associated with display ads.

    Who is going to police this fraud? What would motivate Google or Facebook to do this? (Is it cheaper to buy the whistle blower companies?) Why would the US government – they get the tax money?

    G’s ad revenue is I believe around $50 billion per year. What with their and Facebook’s ad fraud, it makes Australia’s budget deficit a thing of insignificance.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1165344
    Aidan
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,125
    Up
    0
    ::

    We don’t often disagree John, in fact can’t remember last time.

    I’d like to investigate further for myself on any fraud figures that any reputable source might have (PM me with anything sensitive).

    I don’t see anywhere near that level for myself but I’m always interested in digging into any rot there might be. I’ll be damned if I’m paying for fraudulent traffic.

    If I’m not being refunded automatically by the AdWords system (or not charged for fraudulent clicks to begin with as the algorithm is designed to do) I want to know why, so will definitely follow up and report back.

    #1165345
    sohoAustralia
    Member
    • Total posts: 16
    Up
    0
    ::

    Yes – I’m finding Facebook to be a bit sly lately with the changes to Ad/Likes etc.

    I was warned NOT to buy any likes; a few Uni students did some research and found out that buying likes (they are mostly fake) hurts your page. This will dilute your posts in the feeds and your real Likes will be seeing less and less of you.

    Do some YouTube research, there’s much more there.

    Basically, FB is forcing you to buy Adverts but most people have become Ad Blind. It’s getting to the stage where FB is only for the big boys with big spends.

    I’m staying away from any of that and am purely using it as a community driver.

    Cheers,
    Martin

    #1165346
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    Up
    0
    ::
    Aidan, post: 191472 wrote:
    We don’t often disagree John, in fact can’t remember last time.

    I’d like to investigate further for myself on any fraud figures that any reputable source might have…
    Hi Aidan,
    We aren’t disagreeing. I have no expertise in assessing click fraud or accidental clicks.

    I’m just listing some recent articles on the subject. I can’t vouch for their accuracy. (The Achilles heel of the web.)

    Anything you can contribute will be read with great interest.

    I still retain my scepticism about what might go on behind the scenes when there is a $50 billion pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. :)
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1165347
    Cesar
    Member
    • Total posts: 591
    Up
    0
    ::

    I think any form of advertising, especially online, will never be 100% “Foolproof.” Being realistic, I don’t think all clicks that are fraudulent, can be completely detected. There are millions of clicks everyday, and I’m certain some fraudulent ones pass through the radar.

    There should be a strict policy on fraudulent clicks when someone signs-up, in big text not microscopic, that it is completely condoned, and if caught, you will be banned from advertising. This policy, should be there “Right In Your Eyes” when you sign-up, with a Tick Option that you agree with the terms. If their detection software is as sophisticated as they say it is, this should be a priority.

    Facebook, is a good medium for embedding in people’s mind, your “Brand Name”, not for instant sales. Any form of marketing, has to be long-term to see any real benefits, as they say, “Rome wasn’t built in a day.”

    Just remember, nothing is 100% Foolproof, but steps need to be taken to protect the Good Honest Advertisers.

    #1165348
    JohnTranter
    Member
    • Total posts: 842
    Up
    0
    ::

    So, given the information from the video and associated posts

    If I buy likes from a click farm, I’m actually hurting my ability to send my message to my existing ‘likes’

    So what’s to stop me buying 10,000 ‘likes’ from a click farm and asking them to ‘like’ my competitor?
    (or 100,000, or a million etc.)
    It seems like a viable black hat seo technique

    My competitor can’t even disavow any unwanted likes.

    #1165349
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    Up
    0
    ::
    JohnTranter, post: 191504 wrote:
    So what’s to stop me buying 10,000 ‘likes’ from a click farm and asking them to ‘like’ my competitor?
    (or 100,000, or a million etc.)
    It seems like a viable black hat seo technique

    My competitor can’t even disavow any unwanted likes.
    Hi John T,
    I believe you will find Google does not use Fb “likes” in its ranking algorithm.

    Jan 2014: Matt Cutts: Facebook, Twitter Social Signals Not Part of Google Search Ranking Algorithms
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1165350
    JohnTranter
    Member
    • Total posts: 842
    Up
    0
    ::
    JohnW, post: 191511 wrote:
    Hi John T,
    I believe you will find Google does not use Fb “likes” in its ranking algorithm.

    Hey John, I wasn’t talking about Google. I was talking about sharing your message on Facebook.
    i.e. I write a post on Facebook, it goes to 90 of my followers, none of them engage with the post so it doesn’t appear on the wall of my other 1000 followers.

    #1165351
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    Up
    0
    ::
    JohnTranter, post: 191504 wrote:
    It seems like a viable black hat seo technique

    My competitor can’t even disavow any unwanted likes.
    Hi John T,
    Sorry if I misunderstood.

    Your reference to “SEO techniques” and “disavow” tools fooled me and perhaps others.

    As long as other folk understand that nothing they do on Facebook currently has an impact on Google search results with the exception of triggering its “newness” function on occassions.

    I’m glad we clarified…
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1165352
    JohnTranter
    Member
    • Total posts: 842
    Up
    0
    ::
    JohnW, post: 191517 wrote:
    Hi John T,
    Your reference to “SEO techniques” and “disavow” tools fooled me and perhaps others.

    Ah, sorry John. I guess Facebook is not a search engine :)
    I should say ‘black hat social media technique’ or something.

    #1165353
    Stuart B
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,070
    Up
    0
    ::

    John yes you’re right. This could potentially be used as a weapon…

    Buying from click farms is definitely not a good way to build your community. There are no prizes for having the biggest number of LIKES, so the only value is trying to impress people when they join your page. I doubt that many people would join a page purely based on being impressed by a big number though so in the end buying 10k likes is just a gimmick used to fool people who are new to SMM.

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.