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  • #972990
    Craig_Longmuir
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    so we all know link farms are being used and many SEO guys say not to bother with them as they will end up getting you banned. But how long might this take?

    as a web designer i keep an eye on my position and competition…1 company has been ranking particularly well for all web design keywords for the past 6months/year….

    looking at their backlinks, they have 30k+ and looking closer a number of ones i looked at were just spam linkfarms…

    seems to be working for them…is the risk worth it?!

    #1058954
    Netorigin
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    They’ll eventually get penalised when Google changes their search algorithm. In my opinion, it isn’t worth the risk. The consequences of being caught could result in getting your website delisted and banned.

    Google are suppose to be cracking down on linkfarms…

    Cheers,
    Shaun

    #1058955
    Craig_Longmuir
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    and assuming google do penalise websites for this sort of activity what stops people signing their competitors up to a $10 for a 1000 links from a spam farm?!

    #1058956
    websitedesigner
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    Hi mate there is a great article by Rand Fishkin on the SEO Moz blog about this last week – check it out here.

    If you read it you can sense the frustration among ‘white hate’ SEOs in that they know what they are doing is right and does work but they also know that while Black hat stuff is wrong, it also works and people who are good at it will probably figure out ways of keeping it working over the long term.

    Black hat stuff doesn’t site well with me and I am a huge fan of just creating great content but I can also fully understand the perspective of the other guy he talks about in that article in that this stuff goes on all the time and most of it goes unnoticed.

    The other complicating factor is there is other ‘grey hat’ stuff where you are building links to your site which is kind of against Google guidelines but they tolerate to a point. It’s a weird and wacky industry.

    #1058957
    Craig_Longmuir
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    interesting link – yes, definitely frustrating to see dodgy SEO practices getting results….i guess some just get away with it for long enough to make it worthwhile….

    https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/spamreport?hl=en allows you to report sites using dodgy practices but not sure how effective it is!

    #1058958
    Carbonite Australia
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    Whilst it is tempting when you are a business can you really afford to risk being delisted particularly when you live or die on the traffic created by your site and its listing.

    If Carbonite.com.au got banned the business would be in trouble.

    Our traffic today is a mixture of organic traffic via our ranking, traffic via partnerships we have with other software services eg AVG and then the building of our brand so that people know to search direct for carbonite.com.au

    Our organic traffic is a result of our blog. We focus on content and more content.

    We do undertake link building but it is via posts like these where a comment is added. We don’t exchange links with others.

    #1058959
    prepaidplans
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    I have tried link farms for some sites I build a while ago and they did help at the time but it was when they were first built. Since then I focus purely on content, some article writing and leaving comments on sites.

    The more successful your sits get the less you are likely to risk it.

    #1058960
    JohnW
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    I believe you may be misinformed about SEO and how it is used.

    You don’t give us enough info to comment on the competitive web design company who is ranking well. We don’t even know the search phrases they are targeting.

    There are two hundred and one factors they could be using to enhance their ranking.

    External links are subject to a huge range of ranking relevancy factors. In my opinion, 90% of the 30K back links you reference could be all but irrelevant.

    Site size is another major ranking attribute. This important attribute has been buried by all the self claimed SEO experts who want to sell you link building programs.

    You don’t address the size of your site and your competitor’s site. Google tells me your site contains 11 pages.

    If I search for “web design sydney” I find that the top 3 companies have sites of 1,000 – 2,000 pages. Simply looking at external link numbers of your competitors is irrelevant in my humble opinion.

    If you are up against sites that contain hundreds or thousands of pages, your 11 pages are going to pale into insignificance no matter what external links are involved.

    STOP FOCUSING ON LINKS! IT IS CONTENT ON YOUR OWN WEBSITE THAT IS IMPORTANT. Links are important but they are secondary to your site’s content. Google has been singing this song for years.

    Regs,

    JohnW

    #1058961
    AdServe
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    Also I think that Google can not and will never penalise sites due to off site SEO, If Google could do this people would just add all there competitors to spam link farms and watch them drop down or get banned. Google may ban or penalise sites for cloaking or creating hundreds of worthless pages within there domain I think.. no one actually knows anything really…

    #1058962
    Craig_Longmuir
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    the keywords i initially was looking at were “web designer sydney” for which i come up on the 1st page. has been there a while with only 6 pages and rarely updated content so assume that inbound links are the key determination for my site…

    “and assuming google do penalise websites for this sort of activity what stops people signing their competitors up to a $10 for a 1000 links from a spam farm?! “
    “Also I think that Google can not and will never penalise sites due to off site SEO, If Google could do this people would just add all there competitors to spam link farms and watch them drop down or get banned.”

    so i assume what google does is make those links from spam farms useless so the website that has built up a huge number of links to get them a good ranking should, in time be penalised in that all those links become useless and the website returns to the pre-link farm lowly ranking.

    So signing up a competitor would get them a reduction in ranking eventually, BUT only after you had given them a boost upwards in the short term!?

    #1058963
    AdServe
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    I dont think Google can or would ever penalise sites on what is done offsite, It would be very open to abuse. “web designer Sydney” would be one of the most competative keywords. I think you will need to learn a lot and put a lot of work in to rank well.

    #1058964
    Craig_Longmuir
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    i think its more a case or removing (penalising) any ranking gained as a result of underhand off site seo. so in effect using link farms may work for a while but this benefit should be taken away once the link sources are discovered to be farms.

    “web designer sydney” should result in me showing up on the 1st page no?!

    #1058965
    seocourse
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    Once again you confuse what a link farm is…

    A link farm is a proper site, with very high page rank, that you buy just to extract links with high Page rank to your site

    That it’s a proper Link Farm… not a collection of zero page rank sites with zero authority

    I wrote a post yesterday explaining how to pull proper ranking, giving the example of the 1st site in Google.com.au for “web hosting”

    http://www.internetninja.com.au/brave-seo-experts-until-you-confrot-them/

    Reporting to Google for other peoples action it’s like complaining to God … good luck with that.

    In your case if you are going for “web design Sydney” (one of my customers it’s in fact top 4) then you really need to pull some serious links.

    off course, you can go out there and pull 1000 links from $10… but what type of links?

    Contextual links?
    Do follow?
    From the same server?
    from the same owner?
    what it’s the age of the pages?
    what it’s the age of the domain name?
    What’s the page rank of the page and the main domain name…
    etc

    ;)

    This is an article to understand what a REAL link farm is:
    http://www.internetninja.com.au/using-link-farms-to-increase-your-ranking/

    #1058966
    seocourse
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    Perfect example
    Web design Sydney

    Netstarter.com.au , position 5th… amount of link 79.000+ links (holy cow) , page rank 6.
    vs

    Shiftedpixels.com.au position 2th…. just 2047 links…. ;)

    so it’s not just about “amount of links”

    #1058967
    JohnW
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    craiglongmuir.com, post: 73963 wrote:
    the keywords i initially was looking at were “web designer sydney” for which i come up on the 1st page. has been there a while with only 6 pages and rarely updated content so assume that inbound links are the key determination for my site…

    There is much more to ranking in Google than simply the numbers of links. If Google ranking is all about links then how would you explain your ranking position versus the sites that only rank #102 and #103?

    #8 craiglongmuir.com = 1,255 links
    #102 dotcomwebdesign.com = 243,750 links
    #103 i4u.com.au = 23,415 links

    A site’s design, structure and content also play an important role in its ranking for a specific search phrase.

    craiglongmuir.com, post: 72812 wrote:
    1 company has been ranking particularly well for all web design keywords for the past 6months/year….

    looking at their backlinks, they have 30k+ and looking closer a number of ones i looked at were just spam linkfarms…

    seems to be working for them…is the risk worth it?!

    Don’t go there.

    Some other articles on the topic that you may find interesting…

    Jun 2010 “What if My Competitors Point Spammy Links to My Site?”
    http://www.seomoz.org/blog/what-if-my-competitors-point-spammy-links-to-my-site

    Apr 2011 “Can You “Help” In Getting Your Competitors’ Website Penalized?”
    http://www.quantumseolabs.com/blog/seolinkbuilding/competitors-website-penalized/

    Mar 2011 “What if My Competitor Buys Spam Links to My Website?”
    http://www.searchenginejournal.com/what-if-my-competitor-buys-spam-links-to-my-website/28786/

    Mar 2011 “From LinkExperts to Conductor & Now iAcquire “
    http://www.alan-rothstein.com/2011/03/from-linkexperts-to-conductor-now.html

    “I continue to warn all advertisers that participating in paid text link and other spammy practices is a short-term Burn and Churn strategy. If you rely on your brand to sell products, learn the rules of the Google algorithm. Stick to offering great content and products with an eye on SEO best practices. In the long-run, you will continue to improve your visibility in Google and you won’t wake up one day (like JCPenney & Overstock) wondering why you have no Google organic traffic and how much revenue you are loosing in the process.”

    Regs,

    JohnW

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