Home Forums Tech talk Google News: G is already implementing a separate ranking algo for mobile devices

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 71 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #990947
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642

    Hi All,
    The video below from Google’s John Mueller indicates that G is already experimenting with a separate index and ranking algo for mobile sites.

    The significance is that all previous G announcements were that this will happen. This is the first announcement I’ve seen that has advised it is already happening albeit, in a limited way.

    This video is really for the SEO tragics…

    John Mueller Video: Webmaster Hangout – 26 Jan 15

    It’s an hour long video and the mobile algo stuff is discussed at the 51 min 44 sec point in the video.

    Some statements made by JM after this point:

    “Is G indexing mobile sites separately? To some extent…”

    “With ranking (on mobiles)… that is something we have been picking up for a while now…”

    “People who search on mobiles may see your ranking differently to those on desktop”

    “I expect more changes going forward…”

    “We take personalisation into account as much as possible”

    Before the world starts claiming everyone must now have a mobile site, consider this…

    When G starts experimenting, it usually does it very selectively. When it has experimented enough to move forward, it usually implements a major change on its google.com database. It then usually experiments more before it implements the changes to its 100+ other country specific databases.

    It’s seems likely that certain aspects of the mobile algorithm are being implemented in desktop and mobile. Eg. If G increases the importance of the searcher’s location in both ranking algorithms then this can make a major difference to search results on mobile devices.

    It seems G experiments have been going on for a while without anyone really noticing.

    Small Business Owners,

    Don’t panic! Don’t Panic! Don’t Panic!

    You will not suddenly lose a lot of your website traffic while G experiments with this very complex issue. It’s most unlikely to be relevant to Aust sites right now.

    If your web developer starts urging that a mobile enhanced site is now essential, ask him/her to comment in this thread and we will see together how confident they are in their recommendations to you.

    What do folks think?
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1179253
    MatthewKeath
    Member
    • Total posts: 3,184

    I think everyone who does not have a mobile friendly site now has yet another reason to get one.

    They a re pretty much standard now for new builds.

    #1179254
    Aidan
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,125

    It’s been coming. Personally, I’ve been advising clients to get mobile friendly for some time, my preference being for responsive sites over ‘m’ sites to keep management simple.

    I do see it as an ‘SEO thing’ given so much traffic is mobile now though, of course, that applies moreso to some industries than others.

    :)

    #1179255
    IncredibleCo
    Member
    • Total posts: 406

    I’ve been trying to get older clients to come to the “light side” for at least a year now. It’s hard work, they don’t seem to buy into the idea that responsiveness is EXPECTED these days and no longer just a novelty.

    #1179256
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    chaase, post: 209341 wrote:
    Googles algo is like the secret herbs & spices. They rarely come out and state implicitly what they are changing.

    I cant believe you did not take the hint when G put out tools like page speed tool, mobile friendly tool etc that like most of in here saw the writing on the wall ,instead of trying to discredit individuals with paragraphs of text who did not agree with your views!

    Anyone keeping up with industry leading sites and podcasts would know this. Acting once Google makes the change generally would always be after the horse has bolted. We made our sites responsive over 12 months ago based on our industry knowledge.
    Hi Chaase,
    I’m not trying to denigrate you, I’m trying to introduce statements from G staff, evidence from G’s history and search results experimentation. To these I add my experience to form an opinion.

    No Google employee in the video says that G is using “mobile enhanced” or “mobile responsive” as a ranking signal for a separate mobile phone algorithm.

    Here are some video quotes from Google’s John Mueller:

    • “to some extent we are picking up mobile sites at present”
    • “we are going to experiment with ranking changes”
    • To the qustion, “is mobile different already?” Mueller replies, “it is hard to say…” and then, “the ranking is relatively similar”.
    • The young G employee interjects that “location” might be used as a mobile ranking signal.

    Some search terms I’ve assessed suggest that G’s Universal search algo is given more emphasis on mobile phones. (You get more videos, images, news, entertainment, in-depth articles, etc. results than in a desktop search.)

    G staff on other occasions have said that G may place more importance on site speed in the future. Now this would seem to be a problem for most mobile enhanced/responsive sites vs. 5 year old desktop sites. If you run a group of them through a speed test tool, the old non-mobile sites are typically about 2-3 times faster. On G’s Page Speed Insights tool they typically score many points than a group of mobile enhanced/responsive sites. The last industry group of top ranked mobile sites I tested on G’s speed tool averaged only 47/100 on speed.

    It seems likely that G’s page speed tool may be an attempt by G to alert people to the wide range of speed and usability problems that currently exists with enhanced/responsive sites.

    If you’ve followed G for any length of time you would have seen how long it takes it to implement, test, modify, test, modify, test, etc. then maybe roll out the mark 1 version on one index before the others. Then there are all the mark 2, 3, 4 versions that maybe implemented over years.

    Eg. Have a look at the complex schedule of rolls outs listed in the articles below:

    Panda 4.1 — Google’s 27th Panda Update — Is Rolling Out

    The Panda 4.1 update came out in Sep 14. The signal was first implemented in Feb 2011.

    Google Releases Penguin 3.0 — First Penguin Update In Over A Year

    Apr 12 is when Penguin started.

    These two changes to the algo give us some idea of the complexity of implementing one new ranking signal on G.

    Now I ask you to consider how much more complex the implementation of a whole new algorithm for mobile phones is likely to be?

    I believe I’ve consistently said that G wants to place more importance on mobile search but it is not there yet. This video seems to support this opinion.

    Of course my opinion will not always be right as it is all too easy to miss or misinterpret some G signal or have some bias in experimental results. I welcome input from folk with facts or research I’ve missed.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1179257
    Nep
    Member
    • Total posts: 1

    Yes I go agree that Google has been doing this and it will effect it. In Webmaster Tools you can fetch as Google which has an option for mobile indexing. So it will happen and make sure you index using mobile if you are creating new url.

    JohnW, post: 208960 wrote:
    Hi All,
    The video below from Google’s John Mueller indicates that G is already experimenting with a separate index and ranking algo for mobile sites.

    The significance is that all previous G announcements were that this will happen. This is the first announcement I’ve seen that has advised it is already happening albeit, in a limited way.

    This video is really for the SEO tragics…

    John Mueller Video: Webmaster Hangout – 26 Jan 15

    It’s an hour long video and the mobile algo stuff is discussed at the 51 min 44 sec point in the video.

    Some statements made by JM after this point:

    “Is G indexing mobile sites separately? To some extent…”

    “With ranking (on mobiles)… that is something we have been picking up for a while now…”

    “People who search on mobiles may see your ranking differently to those on desktop”

    “I expect more changes going forward…”

    “We take personalisation into account as much as possible”

    Before the world starts claiming everyone must now have a mobile site, consider this…

    When G starts experimenting, it usually does it very selectively. When it has experimented enough to move forward, it usually implements a major change on its google.com database. It then usually experiments more before it implements the changes to its 100+ other country specific databases.

    It’s seems likely that certain aspects of the mobile algorithm are being implemented in desktop and mobile. Eg. If G increases the importance of the searcher’s location in both ranking algorithms then this can make a major difference to search results on mobile devices.

    It seems G experiments have been going on for a while without anyone really noticing.

    Small Business Owners,

    Don’t panic! Don’t Panic! Don’t Panic!

    You will not suddenly lose a lot of your website traffic while G experiments with this very complex issue. It’s most unlikely to be relevant to Aust sites right now.

    If your web developer starts urging that a mobile enhanced site is now essential, ask him/her to comment in this thread and we will see together how confident they are in their recommendations to you.

    What do folks think?
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1179258
    PeteC
    Member
    • Total posts: 5

    All will be revealed after the April 21st update

    #1179259
    Cesar
    Member
    • Total posts: 591
    chaase, post: 209726 wrote:
    Dont panic, dont panic if you have a slow (non responsive) website, this is just G having fun

    http://searchengineland.com/google-testing-red-slow-label-search-results-slower-sites-215483

    Hmmm or are they telling us something allot of us have known for some time? Testing on these types of tags usually gets implemented like Mobile Friendly or Ad etc

    Interestingly two Google sites are slow on the example ROFL!

    Just don’t panic and wait until it’s implemented before making preemptive changes! :(

    Chasse buddy,

    Better to play safe, than being sorry later. At the end of the day, you want your potential customer to love and stay on your site, rather than your competitors. Make it as user-friendly as possible, to avoid getting it “Slapped” by your customer and the SE”s as well.

    #1179260
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    chaase, post: 209726 wrote:
    Dont panic, dont panic if you have a slow (non responsive) website, this is just G having fun

    http://searchengineland.com/google-testing-red-slow-label-search-results-slower-sites-215483

    Hmmm or are they telling us something allot of us have known for some time? Testing on these types of tags usually gets implemented like Mobile Friendly or Ad etc

    Interestingly two Google sites are slow on the example ROFL!

    Just don’t panic and wait until it’s implemented before making preemptive changes! :(
    Hi Chaase,
    It seems to me we need to ask ourselves two questions:

    • What does this mean?
    • What do we do about it?

    1. What does this mean?
    That all Google properties are slow?
    That all videos will be rated as “slow”?
    That all videos hosted on its YouTube property will get a “slow” warning?
    Don’t post anything on Google india?

    2. What do we do about it?
    Without any info to the contrary from Google, here are some recommendations that might be made to clients based on “what does this mean” and possible speed factors.

    Don’t publish videos
    Don’t host videos on YouTube
    Don’t post schollarly articles
    Don’t post info in PDF format
    Don’t use lots of widgets or plugins
    Don’t post pages that include a lot of images?
    Kill all slider pages
    Host your website in the country you are targeting

    I’m going to hold on urging my clients to overhaul their websites until I can give them more informed advice about what will be important.

    If any want an overhaul then of course I will be suggesting a mobile-friendly site but I will give them the warning that this is a new area where lots of change can be expected over the next few years.

    In its entire history, the only times Google has ever done anything dramatic has been when it has killed off the latest link building schemes or culled useless content.

    IMHO, this is not a “panic” situation. There are so few websites (including many mobile-responsive sites that fail the “friendliness” test) that I expect the vast majority of small business websites won’t see any impact on their site traffic in the short term.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1179261
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    chaase, post: 209837 wrote:
    Also Google is not preparing a new algo for mobile.

    They are actually creating a whole new index for mobile search.

    http://www.thesempost.com/google-working-completely-separate-mobile-index-desktop-index/

    At SMX this week, Gary Illyes dropped a bombshell when he stated that Google is working on a mobile only version of the search index, which would see desktop and mobile have completely separate search indexes.

    Hi Chaase,
    G already uses many different indexes. When it implements major changes it typically tests them on its .com index first before rolling them out on others. Eg. Its “Pigeon” upgrade was implemented on the Aust index 6 months after the USA index.

    Folk need to understand that major changes to SEs’ indexes and algorithms cause many unforseen results. The last thing G wants is bad results.

    Based on its history, I would expect G to be testing and modifying a major new index or algo implementation over many months if not years.

    Here is a summary article on G’s changes over the last 15 years:

    Google Algorithm Change History

    We still have the unanswered question, “what do we do about it?”

    The article you reference says:

    What would having two indexes mean for webmasters? It definitely does raise the question about whether webmasters should be focusing on the user experience for both desktop and mobile as completely separate user experiences. So while Google has recommended responsive design for quite some time, it would seem responsive might not be the best option if SEOs would need to focus SEO and potentially different SEO tactics for ranking in two different indexes.”

    I find it useful to go back to the detailed article about Gary Illyes’ SMX presentation.

    Google’s Gary Illyes Q&A on Upcoming Mobile Ranking Change

    It includes these statements:

    “…things webmasters need to know about the upcoming mobile ranking change, according to Google.”

    “Responsive does not have a ranking benefit”

    “Your site must unblock CSS & javascript
    If you are blocking elements such as CSS and javascript, your site will not pass Google’s mobile friendly test, even if everything else on the site passes. So you do need to allow Googlebot to crawl both CSS & javascript to pass.”
    (This may be the single most important comment in this article.)

    “Is Google considering a completely separate mobile index in the future?
    He isn’t sure what stage they are at, so Google has nothing to announce about it at this time.”

    I hope this helps calm things down.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1179262
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    chaase, post: 209973 wrote:
    The context is, responsive does not have a ranking benefit any different to a m.mysite.com. However a site that is neither a m.mysite or responsive will loose juice.

    But you keep advising your clients as you are, some of us choose to listen to experts in this field!
    Hi Chaase,
    I’ve been in this SEO business for 20 years. When/how does one get to qualify as an SEO expert in your opinion?

    My point is, this is all so new that it seems there are no “experts in this field” who can tell us how to implement mobile-friendly websites in such a way as to have a major impact on SE referrals. The references you have posted above seem to support my proposition.

    The bottom line to me is, when it comes to a small business owner with a few hundred dollars to spend on improving sales enquiries from his/her website, do they spend it on SEO or on a mobile-enabled website?

    Based on the limited evidence to date, I suggest that if their desktop/tablet-friendly website is not attracting many enquiries then switching that site over to a mobile-friendly website won’t create any more enquiries.

    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1179263
    MatthewKeath
    Member
    • Total posts: 3,184

    Really, this discussion is academic and helps no one.

    1. Google tags your site as non responsive on their searches.

    2. Google have flagged making your site mobile friendly is something they are looking at.

    3. There is a special tool to check how well your site does on mobile that is provide by Google.

    4. People use mobiles, you want them to be able to enjoy your site right?

    Everyone agrees. Let’s move to a mobile friendly web. For the sake of our users.

    Argue semantics all your want, but not here. It’s not helping anyone.

    #1179264
    MatthewKeath
    Member
    • Total posts: 3,184
    JohnW, post: 209926 wrote:
    “Your site must unblock CSS & javascript
    If you are blocking elements such as CSS and javascript, your site will not pass Google’s mobile friendly test, even if everything else on the site passes. So you do need to allow Googlebot to crawl both CSS & javascript to pass.”
    (This may be the single most important comment in this article.)

    I don’t undertstand this.

    Isn’t a blocking resource mean that it need to load before the page renders? What has this got to do with crawling CSS and JS?

    I have been trying to find the transcript of the interview so I can actually read it but can only find this one article on it.

    Google doesn’t say anything about having to crawl CSS and JS that I can find.

    #1179265
    MatthewKeath
    Member
    • Total posts: 3,184
    JohnW, post: 209926 wrote:
    “Your site must unblock CSS & javascript
    If you are blocking elements such as CSS and javascript, your site will not pass Google’s mobile friendly test, even if everything else on the site passes. So you do need to allow Googlebot to crawl both CSS & javascript to pass.”
    (This may be the single most important comment in this article.)OK! I did some research.

    1. This only matter if you have CSS or JS blocked using your robots.txt file, which I don;t think any small businesses would have.

    So now I understand what it is I don’t it really matter to 99.9% of small businesses.

    #1179266
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642

    12 Mar 15: “How Much Traffic Will You Lose From The Upcoming Mobile SEO-Pocalypse?

    “Google’s mobile-friendliness update is coming this April, but should you be rushing to make your site mobile-friendly?”

    “What if you’re in an industry where far less than 30% of your traffic comes from mobile devices? Should it still be a priority to make your site mobile friendly? Would you really lose that much traffic if you didn’t?”

    “Recently on Google+, Rand Fishkin shared the device breakdown for different sections of Moz.com, and the numbers are pretty low – so low that Justin Briggs estimated the traffic that he might lose as a result of not being mobile friendly might be as low as “less than 1%.”

    We won’t know until April 21 what the fallout will be for the search results that matter for your business,…”

    Something to ponder…
    JohnW

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 71 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.