Home Forums Tech talk Google News: G is already implementing a separate ranking algo for mobile devices

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  • #1179282
    MatthewKeath
    Member
    • Total posts: 3,184
    Cesar, post: 211090 wrote:
    I just love seeing all those professionally laid-out responsive sights on my mobile, when searching for something. At least, I don’t have to squint my eyes or do split exercises with my fingers..This is a great point.

    While the ranking weight of ‘mobile friendly’ can be debated (I suspect is will be massive) having a great mobile responsive site is good for our customers.

    I did a quick search ‘carpet cleaners’ and about 50% of sites were mobile friendly. (as evidenced by a special tag Google placed)

    #1179283
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    MatthewKeath, post: 211141 wrote:
    While the ranking weight of ‘mobile friendly’ can be debated (I suspect is will be massive) having a great mobile responsive site is good for our customers.

    I did a quick search ‘carpet cleaners’ and about 50% of sites were mobile friendly. (as evidenced by a special tag Google placed)
    Hi Matt,
    If you do the same search on a desktop from the same location as your phone search, you should see much the same search results because the mobile phone algo has not kicked in yet.

    No one is saying that mobile-friendly is not important. I’m just saying that I believe we will see there are a bunch of other very important ranking elements on top of the simple usability parameters that are currently defined in G’s “mobile-friendly” tool.

    My opinion is based on:

    • The current tool does not really assess mobile-friendliness. If it did, it would be looking at web page load speed.
    • The current mobile-usability tool cannot offer any impact on search result relevance or timeliness. These are stated as G’s two most important attributes for mobile phone search results.
    • G’s history of how long it takes to implement major algo changes.

    IMHO, G is desperately trying to force the world to a position where it removes more barriers to searching on mobile phones so it can generate more mobile Adwords revenue. The first and easier step is to address usability issues. The biggie and harder problem will be tackling the problem of page load speed.

    I suggest this algo change is potentially as complex as anything G has introduced since it first launched. The first step will be small in the scheme of things. I do believe this will be a very long pathway that we are embarking on (decades – if G lasts this long) with many, frequent and major changes along the way.

    Look at how long relatively simple algo updates like Panda and Penguin have behind them.

    Panda = Launch date Feb 11
    Penguin = Launch date Apr 12

    PS. I do wish G would stop calling pages mobile-friendly when it is not using the page’s mobile phone load speed in its tag definition.

    The first 2 “mobile-friendly” sites I clicked on, my phone switched off while waiting for them to load.

    (6 Mar 15, “…out of SMX West from Google’s Gary Illyes is that factors like page speed signals for ranking are based on the desktop version, not the mobile version“)
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1179284
    MatthewKeath
    Member
    • Total posts: 3,184
    JohnW, post: 211167 wrote:
    Hi Matt,
    If you do the same search on a desktop from the same location as your phone search, you should see much the same search results because the mobile phone algo has not kicked in yet.

    No one is saying that mobile-friendly is not important. I’m just saying that I believe we will see there are a bunch of other very important ranking elements on top of the simple usability parameters that are currently defined in G’s “mobile-friendly” tool. Speed is damn important, no one is disputing that. But, why would Google rank the pages you clicked on when they are so slow? It’s a complex beast!

    There is a Google speed check which has a mobile section, that checks a range of things.

    I am not saying Google has done anything yet, just a quick search shows that companies are starting to get the mobile thing sorted.

    I am looking forward to all sites being mobile friendly, so Google is doing the world a service :)

    #1179285
    Anonymous
    Guest
    • Total posts: 11,464

    Hi folks,

    Just a short note to let you know that some comments on this thread were from a spammer and have now been deleted.

    Apologies to those of you who took the time to respond to his questions, but I’m sure the info you’ve supplied will be useful to others.

    Thanks for your understanding, and if you see anything suss, please remember to hit the Report post button.

    Cheers,
    Jayne

    #1179286
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    MatthewKeath, post: 211182 wrote:
    Speed is damn important, no one is disputing that. But, why would Google rank the pages you clicked on when they are so slow? It’s a complex beast!

    There is a Google speed check which has a mobile section, that checks a range of things.
    Hi Matt,
    Complex beast indeed.

    Google’s Gary Illyes is reported as saying at the Mar 2015 SMX West conference, “Having a slow or fast mobile site should not impact your mobile-rankings, assuming your desktop site is fast.”

    And:
    “Google still uses many desktop signals for mobile ranking, even after April 21”

    We also hear G’s John Mueller saying that G is experimenting with load speed in its mobile algo.

    The whole load speed issue is very problematic. G has known for years that this is by far the most important element for mobile phone users.

    G introduced a slow load speed penalty for desktop sites around 5 years ago but to my knowledge this only impacted the very slowest of sites. I believe a figure of perhaps 1% of websites being affected was cited by Google’s Matt Cutts.

    So what is holding up load speed use in the ranking algo?

    Three issues/problems come to my mind:

    1. What is real mobile page load speed and how can G measure it?
    It is not beyond the realms of likelihood for there to be a four-fold or more difference in load speed of any single web page depending on the time of day or week and how/where it is accessed. There are issues like the searcher’s mobile phone service, location of web server, its Internet access, number and types of websites it hosts as well as how many people are using its processing power at any one time, server overload protection issues, number and size of files needed to display the page, bot attacks on servers and websites, etc., etc.

    So far G’s developer’s load speed test tool does not attempt to report any real load speeds, it only reports on a small number of the technical issues that can impact on load speed.

    2. Mobile Phone Algo Complexity
    I assume that using the desktop load speed in the mobile algo initially, is part of minimizing the initial complexity of the mobile phone ranking algo project.

    G does not fully know what will happen to its search results when it makes a drastic change. Its entire history has been based on testing small algo changes before implementing them, then modifying them over years to improve result quality. IMHO, what we will see as the mobile ranking algo at the end of Apr 15 will be almost unrecognisable when compared with the mobile ranking algo in 2 years time.

    3. Many existing mobile sites may be slow
    Another problem could be that so many mobile-enabled websites have been published with seemingly little attention to mobile load speed that if G implemented this element now there may be very few mobile sites left in the top rankings.

    Eg. In the last search market audit I conducted, 4 of the top 10 ranked sites were mobile-enabled but they averaged over 50 files and 1 meg of data to load their Home pages.

    If people convert a desktop site that uses lots of widgets and plug-ins with many large, high resolution images to a mobile site, it can be appallingly slow.

    This factor touches on issues like site design, structure, functionality and content that may need to be considered in the mobile phone website world.

    Then there is the user generated content…

    In this day of content management systems (CMS) and e-com systems, I still find that most page publishers have no idea about how to create optimised images let alone the consequences of uploading 2 meg single images. (I’m talking about the lay users of the CMS/e-com systems.)

    IMHO, the more we explore and the more info provided by G about the mobile phone algo the more potential for “devil in the detail” we encounter.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1179287
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642

    Hi All,
    I found the following a very interesting article that is essentially about possible SEO strategies for the intitial mobile phone algo world:

    25 Mar 15: Who Needs to Be Mobile-ready by April 21, 2015?

    Author: Michael Martinez
    The author is a very well known and respected figure in the SEO community who has been a practising SEO since 2000.

    Topics discussed in the article include:

    • Search Visibility Does Not Equal Search Referral Traffic
    • Conversions Matter More Than Traffic For Some Sites
    • You Only Need to Convert Individual Pages, Not Whole Sites
    • But How Do You Know If You Need to Do Any of This? (Create a mobile-friendly site.)
    • SEO Providers Need to Look at the Business Needs, Not the Algorithm Date

    I found this a thought provoking comment,

    “If you have three pages on a 1,000-page site that act like income-producing landing pages, how many pages on your site need to be ready by April 21? Just three as far as I can see.”

    Hope it is of interest.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1179288
    MatthewKeath
    Member
    • Total posts: 3,184
    JohnW, post: 211968 wrote:
    “If you have three pages on a 1,000-page site that act like income-producing landing pages, how many pages on your site need to be ready by April 21? Just three as far as I can see.”

    Interesting article, but why would you only convert 3 pages on your site? Unless you site is built in pure html and is hard to change.

    99% of sites in this forum will be in WordPress or another CMS, which makes sense to convert them all at the same time.

    It should be noted that his site is mobile friendly. (and WordPress)

    #1179289
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    MatthewKeath, post: 211975 wrote:
    Interesting article, but why would you only convert 3 pages on your site? Unless you site is built in pure html and is hard to change.

    99% of sites in this forum will be in WordPress or another CMS, which makes sense to convert them all at the same time.

    It should be noted that his site is mobile friendly. (and WordPress)
    Hi Mattt,
    Google tells me there are 75 million WordPress sites out of 1 billion. I don’t know how accurate these numbers are.

    I think the points being made by Martinez are that:

    • many/most mobile-friendly and desktop-friendly pages must be a communications compromise
    • in terms of attracting SE referrals, “mobile-friendliness” is possibly only of significance for a small number of site pages or for certain types of businesses

    It is the first issue that seems to be escaping people’s understanding. The communications capability of a small mobile phone screen that is mostly used “on the run” MUST be very different and limited compared to a 1900 pixel wide desktop monitor in a fixed office or home location where people have the time to read/study/comprehend/explore info.

    I suggest that the communications characteristics of mobile phone and desktop screens are as different as those of newspaper and television communications.

    Example:
    If you are publishing a page for mobile phone users, it will probably contain limited text and may contain more pics/videos than a desktop viewer’s page. The page layout will be very constrained as will be the available on-screen information.

    A desktop page may contain a lot more text to achieve its comms objectives. It is much more flexible and informative with the on-screen visible info it can contain.

    From an SEO perspective, the desktop page is likely to rank higher in the search results because SEs are designed to find long content pages.

    So, what are you going to recommend to your clients?

    • Do you tell them to publish their sites with lots of short content web pages that are more mobile-friendly but which will be hard to find in the SEs or,
    • should they publish longer content pages that are desktop-friendly for Google’s desktop algo?

    You can’t have it both ways.

    Maybe that is why Martinez is suggesting that people publish selected pages to be mobile-friendly.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1179290
    MatthewKeath
    Member
    • Total posts: 3,184
    JohnW, post: 211988 wrote:
    Hi Mattt,
    Google tells me there are 75 million WordPress sites out of 1 billion. I don’t know how accurate these numbers are.

    I think the points being made by Martinez are that:

    • many/most mobile-friendly and desktop-friendly pages must be a communications compromise
    • in terms of attracting SE referrals, “mobile-friendliness” is possibly only of significance for a small number of site pages or for certain types of businesses

    It is the first issue that seems to be escaping people’s understanding. The communications capability of a small mobile phone screen that is mostly used “on the run” MUST be very different and limited compared to a 1900 pixel wide desktop monitor in a fixed office or home location where people have the time to read/study/comprehend/explore info.

    I suggest that the communications characteristics of mobile phone and desktop screens are as different as those of newspaper and television communications.

    Example:
    If you are publishing a page for mobile phone users, it will probably contain limited text and may contain more pics/videos than a desktop viewer’s page. The page layout will be very constrained as will be the available on-screen information.

    A desktop page may contain a lot more text to achieve its comms objectives. It is much more flexible and informative with the on-screen visible info it can contain.

    From an SEO perspective, the desktop page is likely to rank higher in the search results because SEs are designed to find long content pages.

    So, what are you going to recommend to your clients?

    • Do you tell them to publish their sites with lots of short content web pages that are more mobile-friendly but which will be hard to find in the SEs or,
    • should they publish longer content pages that are desktop-friendly for Google’s desktop algo?

    You can’t have it both ways.

    Maybe that is why Martinez is suggesting that people publish selected pages to be mobile-friendly.
    Regs,
    JohnWIf you are doing paid ads with LP’s or have one or two specific ‘money page’ then of course you optimise them differently.

    I don’t think that the difference between mobile and desktop is like TV and newspaper. i actually think that is very alarmist. The type of site dictact how people consume the content.

    A news site is different to a plumbers site which is different to Facebook.

    Also, people scroll. So 400 words on a desktop is fine on a mobile. Of course you can have it both ways. That is what Google to do!

    For a small business site, ensuring your site is mobile resposibe is a must. As you remind is, this is a small business forum.

    #1179291
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642

    chaase, post: 212111 wrote:
    Interesting blog post

    https://stewartmedia.biz/googles-mobile-seo-update-asx200/
    Hi Chaase,
    I’m not impressed with this video. It seems to be another “Chicken Little” publication claiming that the sky will fall if you don’t have a mobile website.

    The first question should be, what info do mobile phone users want from these businesses?

    The research is indicating that mobile phone users tend to search for:

    • phone numbers of local business
    • addresses of local business
    • how to get to local businesses
    • local availability of products/services
    • local entertainment and food information
    • news
    • weather
    • videos, music, games, etc.

    I can’t understand any “expert” who writes an article that does not start with what info the target customers want.

    There are many ASX200 companies whose websites are aimed at B2B, investors, media and folk who will be searching for detailed info on desktops.

    If they are searching for these businesses on their mobile phone, they probably only want a phone number, email or address.

    The author’s claim that many non-mobile sites are going to be “smashed” by Google is misplaced and I believe, biased!

    Google has said that a non-mobile site is likely to outrank a mobile-friendly site for brand/company name searches on a mobile phone. Surely, this is what most mobile users will be looking for?

    IMHO, this is a sensationalist article that offers no substantiation.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1179292
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642

    Hi All,
    Communication and learning are very complex topics that have been subject to much scientific study over the years.

    The mobile phone is a delivery channel that is so new that the researchers are just starting to explore its capabilities, characteristics, limitations and user parameters.

    Here are a few in-depth papers/articles that those seriously interested in learning how to use this new medium to maximum effect may find interesting…

    1. Scaling User Interfaces: An Information-Processing Approach to Multi-Device Design
    by Raluca Budiu on April 13, 2014

    Raluca Budiu is a Senior Researcher with Nielsen Norman Group. At NN/g she consults for clients from a variety of industries and presents tutorials on mobile and tablet usability, cognitive psychology for designers, and principles of human computer interaction. She holds a Ph.D. from Carnegie Mellon University.

    “Summary: Designing for all screen sizes must consider the capacity of the human–device communication channel, which depends on users’ memory, device portability, and screen size.”

    Topics discussed include:

    “Screen Size Limits the Capacity of the Communication Channel”

    “The more portable a device, the more likely people are to use it pretty much everywhere, and also the more likely they are to be interrupted while using that device. The attention capacity with a portable device is very different than with a desktop computer. In fact, a paper published in Mobile HCI back in 2011 showed that the average session duration on mobile was 72 seconds. While it may be a few seconds more or less now, a mobile site or app basically has slightly more than a minute to help users get to where they need. (In contrast, the average session size on the desktop is about twice as long — 2.5 minutes.)”

    Mobile Design and the Limited Capacity of the Communication Channel

    Designing for different screen sizes needs to take into account the capacity of the communication channel. Designing for mobile is pretty much like passing a camel through the eye of a needle…

    2. Heuristic Evaluation on Mobile Interfaces: A New Checklist
    The Scientific World Journal.
    Volume 2014 (2014), Article ID 434326, 19 pages

    “This mobile-specific heuristic guideline is not only an evaluation tool but also a compilation of recommended best-practices. It can guide the design of websites or applications oriented to mobile devices taking usability into account.”

    “3. Results and Discussion
    3.1. Problem Scope Definition”

    “…Mobile interactions define a new paradigm characterized by a wide range of specific constraints…
    According to the literature, the main constraints when designing for mobile devices are…”

    “(A)limited input/output facilities…”

    “(B)mobility and varying context:…

    Mobile devices use is on-the-run and interactions may take from a few seconds to minutes, being highly context-dependent. Environmental distractions have a significant effect on mobile interfaces usability…

    Context of use involves background noise, ongoing conversations, people passing by, and so on. Distractions can be auditory, visual, social, or caused by mobility.

    Laboratory testing seems incapable of completely assuring usability in this mobile paradigm.”

    (C)Type of Tasks: in mobile environments, typical tasks are relatively different from traditional desktop devices.

    3. Research Trends in Internet Use 2014

    Screen size influences usage duration
    In 2014, the PC or laptop was the main device used for longer site visits, e-commerce and comparable transactions. Panel monitoring data show that a PC user goes online with a browser only 51 times a month, whereas the figure for a smartphone user is 137 times. However, on a smartphone the average browser session duration is just one minute, compared with roughly half an hour on the PC.”

    “Apps: essential usage trend
    The rise of the app is undoubtedly one of the most influential internet usage trends of recent years. Although there are apps that don’t require internet access, many perform functions comparable to those of websites. In effect, some actually replace browsers. In such cases, the app serves as an alternative means of accessing content which is also available on a website. Consequently, there has been a lot of speculation in recent years as to whether apps are the websites of the future.”

    “Conclusions

    …. Mobile internet use is currently characterised by high session frequency and short average session duration.”

    IMHO, the bottom line is that there is a lot more to publishing an effective mobile website than the limited usability parameters currently promoted by Google.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1179293
    Greg_M
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,691
    JohnW, post: 212253 wrote:
    “Conclusions

    …. Mobile internet use is currently characterised by high session frequency and short average session duration.”[/INDENT]
    IMHO, the bottom line is that there is a lot more to publishing an effective mobile website than the limited usability parameters currently promoted by Google.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    I’ve been following this thread with interest, and I agree we’re into unknown waters. I also agree that designing for the mobile is very different, and requires a paradigm shift in designing the interface.

    BUT, given that putting a site into a good responsive framework is not that big a deal these days, why would you risk not doing it?

    You won’t be penalised in any way, there’s only the potential for upside imo.

    Plenty of designer/developers will screw it up, but they do it just as badly on the desktop anyway. So what’s the harm if you can at least be readable on a phone or tablet?

    I see no real development cost implications (certainly for small businesses) in having a responsive framework if the developer has any idea of building a website.

    If you have properly identified your potential customers you should have a good indication of their preferred devices imo … then either design for the mobile/tablet space and work out to larger screens, or build for the big screen and at least be useful at the smaller scale.

    There are so many screen sizes now, targeting them individually would be a financial and logistic nightmare.

    imo, load speed is an issue on mobile (especially living in a dodgy coverage area) and I wonder if using a CDN actually does enough to cover using a “go to” CMS framework … seems weird to be pulling requests for basically static pages from a database.

    I think the advent of hybrid apps will really shake up the space i.e. apps that are connected to the network but have access to the underlying hardware acceleration/storage/gestures.

    It’s already possible to make these apps indexable and searchable.

    #1179294
    Colin-S
    Member
    • Total posts: 31

    I had some good friends round for dinner last weekend.

    All of them, without exception, had their phones out and were surfing.

    This may reflect on my abilities as a host. I prefer to think it indicates that most businesses are missing out without a mobile friendly website!

    Google has made me more confident it wasnt my abilities as a host!

    #1179295
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    Greg_M, post: 212262, member: 38207 wrote:
    I’ve been following this thread with interest, and I agree we’re into unknown waters. I also agree that designing for the mobile is very different, and requires a paradigm shift in designing the interface.

    BUT, given that putting a site into a good responsive framework is not that big a deal these days, why would you risk not doing it?…

    …imo, load speed is an issue on mobile (especially living in a dodgy coverage area)…

    I think the advent of hybrid apps will really shake up the space i.e. apps that are connected to the network but have access to the underlying hardware acceleration/storage/gestures.

    It’s already possible to make these apps indexable and searchable.
    Hi Greg M,
    Thanks for your contribution. And, please forgive me if I repeat that I’m not anti mobile phone enhanced websites.

    My two pet peeves in this Google mobile phone algo discussion are:

    1. Google’s new algorithm is only part mobile phone-friendly.
    2. The information needs of mobile and desktop users appear to be very different.

    So, how can the same site structure and content equally deliver relevant referrals in generic SE results and how can it communincate equally to the needs of phone and desktop users?

    Simply rendering an existing desktop site into a responsive design format may be a poor use of Internet marketing dollars.

    1. Google’s new algorithm is only part mobile phone-friendly.
    Google is not using mobile page load speed in its new algo. All the user studies tell us that this is the most desired attribute of mobile users. In all the market audits I’ve conducted, most mobile websites are way too slow to load. If this is not fixed, the risk is that people will start reading G’s “mobile friendly” tag as a “go slow” message.

    I believe that at some point G will need to address load speed in its algo. Are we to design websites for it now or wait and ask clients for more dollars later?

    Business Owners,
    The research suggests that visitors leave a site that takes too long to load. I don’t care where your page ranks in the new G algo, if it takes 10 seconds to load, don’t expect many SE referrals!

    I suggest you set your designer/developer a “no pay” performance parameter if your mobile pages don’t load first time above-the-fold in say, 3 seconds(?).

    (Refs to quote your site developer:

    Mobile consumers expect speed greater than many retailers are providing

    “64% of smartphone users want a site to load within four seconds; 82% within five seconds”

    Mobile Load Times for Responsive Sites Unacceptable

    “…surveyed 155 responsive sites and found that just 21 percent were loading in less than four seconds on a smartphone. What’s worse, 32 percent of the sites surveyed took between 8-48 seconds to load.”)

    2. Simply rendering an existing desktop site into a responsive design format may be a poor use of Internet marketing dollars.

    In many cases, revising a website for the mobile phone web will require a rethink of content, structure and design. How can we make a good fist of this when at present we don’t know what the other mobile ranking parameters will be, let alone their importance and impact in the ranking algo?

    What we have been told by G is that its “mobile-friendly” parameter has a fixed value in the ranking algo. G staff have also indicated that a non-mobile brand site is likely to out rank a mobile-friendly non-brand page in the results. That suggests to me that the fixed “mobile-friendly” factor is a significant but not a major ranking element.

    I want to know what are the major ranking factors in the mobile algo before I advice clients on implementing what may be a significant investment.

    I’m guessing that “location” will be a major mobile ranking factor. There are many ways that you can build and write location words into a website. Location word ranking point scores are not “fixed” like the “mobile-friendly” factor is said to be.

    So, how important will a location word be in your web marketing? Will its mobile searching importance be high enough to cause you to skew both your desktop and mobile sites around it?

    Example:
    Your Home page content should rank its target search terms highest in ranking results. Does that mean:

    • You make your “Contact” page your Home page?
    • Will location words in domain names become more important?
    • What ranking tactics can a business that has no location search factor use?
    • How is a business going to target surrounding suburb location searches?

    I could make a very long list of questions to which no one has the mobile phone SEO answers right now…

    Greg,
    I think you are the first to raise the issue of apps in this thread. It is on these where most mobile phone Internet time is spent.

    In its own announcement, G gave as much space to info about the new mobile algo indexing apps as to web pages (Finding more mobile-friendly search results).

    Eg. I understand that there are many more people with Ebay and/or Amazon apps loaded onto their phones than there are active Twitter accounts.

    Does this mean we recommend clients explore the cost/benefit of a phone app instead of blindly pushing them into a prematurely implemented mobile site?

    BTW, here is G’s latest statement about the new mobile algo…

    21 Apr 15: Ranking change to help you find mobile-friendly sites rolling out today

    “Note that this (G’s definition of a mobile-friendly ranking factor) is just one of over 200 signals we use to evaluate the best results. Non-mobile-friendly sites won’t disappear from mobile Search results—they may still rank high if they hold great content the user wants.”

    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1179296
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642

    Folk may be interested in this Google (Q4 2012) consumer research on Australian mobile phone users:

    What users want from mobile sites today

    Note that this is a study of consumer attitudes. I.e. It is not a survey of B2B markets.

    “Key Findings…
    It is important for mobile sites to allow users to:

    1) Find quick, essential information on a service

    2) Perform specialized tasks while on-the-go

    3) Further engage with a brand”

    See page 18 onwards: Devices preferred for differing situations

    These are the frequently reported functions where mobiles are preferred over desktops:

    • Getting directions/business hours
    • Downloading an app
    • Making contact

    Page 29: “Fast and easy wins the race

    Mobile users agree:

    • Mobile means mobile. They are on the move and looking to make contact and take action. Most-wanted info: locations, opening hours, phone numbers.
    • Other than contact information, mobile users want to conduct other less-intensive tasks while on-the-go.

    For example, Banking users want current information on stocks, and Travel users like to be able to check-in.”
    Regs,
    JohnW

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