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  • #988168
    ClaireR
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    Hi all, I’m hoping someone has some advice.

    I am a presenter, in a very niche market, as far as I can tell in Australia there is less than 10 people presenting/educating on what I do. It’s all been very rushed as I did one gig to test the waters and received 5 bookings before I left the event so even basic things like GST/No GST invoices are still boggling my brain!

    1 of the bookings was actually for a series of 2.5hr shows. At the first presentation one of the attendees made it known to me that he was asked by his organisation to put together a national policy on topics I cover which he knew nothing about, heard about my presentation and came as a starting point.

    The problem came when about 3/4 way through I noticed his phone was recording and he was taking photos of my slides. Fast forward to yesterday, his company just released a blog almost identical to one of my key slides (Steps 1 -5, as well as a written version of what I said during my show as my slides are purposefully light on of text). They then even talk about their next blog covering the topics that I will cover this Friday at Part 2 of the series as well as making a book available to download in the future with bullet points of my topics from the marketing flyer (Parts 1-4)! He and his boss have already reserved their seat for this Friday, as it is free for the community I cant exactly say they can not attend.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on either how to have the conversation about my work now being on as their blog and/or moving forward, tips on how to mitigate people taking my work as their own.

    I am so passionate about my topics having spent 15 years studying/working/researching in this field but feel so green in terms of the “business” side of presenting. Any advice would be hugely appreciated.

    #1165936
    Stuart B
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    I would suggest charging for attending that way you won’t feel hurt when people use the information you present. If it’s that good for people they will be willing to pay for the knowledge they walk away with.

    The bottom line is that at the end of the day you can’t make it water tight, and if someone really wants to use your stuff, they will and there’s little you can do.

    #1165937
    BruceR
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    Hi Claire,

    I presume they haven’t credited you on their blog. My first suggestion would be to approach them nicely and say something like “great article, I see you’ve covered many of the points from my presentation you attended last week – would you mind mentioning or crediting me.”

    You could also make a comment to the same effect on their blog and anywhere else you have seen it (e.g. Facebook) – just saying “hey, thanks for covering the points from my presentation last week – I look forward to seeing you at [plug your next event].”

    The base line is you can’t really stop people using the same ideas (copyright of written work and trademarks may be some protection but going down the legal route probably wouldn’t be much help). Just be better than they are!!

    #1165938
    Johny
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    Bugger being nice.

    There is a difference between using some of the information gained from a show and being so brazen as to be recording it.

    Based on what you have said, this guy has come with the intent of ripping off your work. That’s either by way of direct endorsement to do it by his company, or because he is too lazy to do the research himself.

    If you are confident in the belief that your work has been almost exactly copied, I would be going straight to the head guys at this company with a comparison of the work you did and the work on their blog, offering to provide the information/course, at a cost that can be negotiated.

    If they aren’t prepared to stump up for it, call them out on it, either on their blog, facebook, wherever.

    #1165939
    Anonymous
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    Hi Claire,

    In my industry, it’s common for the small print on the advertising for these types of events to say something like, “We reserve the right to refuse entry to competitors and their staff”.

    Would doing something like that solve it?

    Good luck,
    Jayne

    #1165940
    Past-Member
    Member
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    Hi, I feel your pain. I like Bruce’s suggestion, or I have noticed other places state ‘no recording devices to be used etc’ (hard to police unless they hand the phones in – and I’ve been to a number of presentations where we had to do that) … however, back to the problem …

    Charging an entry fee is the first thing to do.

    Second, make available course notes as a pdf people can download if they provide their email address and contact details (build database here)

    Thirdly, make sure your BRANDING is on every slide, every piece of paper, every handout, everything you do with your name/logo and website.

    Fourthly, I am told that if someone copies me it’s a form of flattery. I don’t feel that way, but have been told it many times. I actually had my artwork stolen and put on websites overseas on other sites. Now I don’t put up any large images that are not watermarked which saddens me, but is a necessary thing for me to do. We can’t stop it copying, but we can slow it down I hope.

    All the best.

    #1165941
    Jenny Spring
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    ClaireR , post: 192126 wrote:
    Hi all, I’m hoping someone has some advice.

    I am a presenter, in a very niche market, as far as I can tell in Australia there is less than 10 people presenting/educating on what I do. It’s all been very rushed as I did one gig to test the waters and received 5 bookings before I left the event so even basic things like GST/No GST invoices are still boggling my brain!

    1 of the bookings was actually for a series of 2.5hr shows. At the first presentation one of the attendees made it known to me that he was asked by his organisation to put together a national policy on topics I cover which he knew nothing about, heard about my presentation and came as a starting point.

    The problem came when about 3/4 way through I noticed his phone was recording and he was taking photos of my slides. Fast forward to yesterday, his company just released a blog almost identical to one of my key slides (Steps 1 -5, as well as a written version of what I said during my show as my slides are purposefully light on of text). They then even talk about their next blog covering the topics that I will cover this Friday at Part 2 of the series as well as making a book available to download in the future with bullet points of my topics from the marketing flyer (Parts 1-4)! He and his boss have already reserved their seat for this Friday, as it is free for the community I cant exactly say they can not attend.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on either how to have the conversation about my work now being on as their blog and/or moving forward, tips on how to mitigate people taking my work as their own.

    I am so passionate about my topics having spent 15 years studying/working/researching in this field but feel so green in terms of the “business” side of presenting. Any advice would be hugely appreciated.

    Firstly, I don’t believe you can legally deny entry to anyone, and I wouldn’t recommend that (someone else’s suggestion).

    I would suggest you contact Jacqui from Mark My Words, and she can send a tersely word cease and desist or something like that letter to them, which will put them on notice of breach of copyright.

    Also, copying is rife. It is the reality of the internet age. However, remember that you are the expert, and have 15 years in this area, and they obviously don’t. So focus on the expertise you bring – that is why people will hire you and want to work with you.

    But I’d definitely put them on notice.

    Jenny

    #1165942
    Totally Awesome
    Member
    • Total posts: 63
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    From what I understand, if you can prove they have copied your work then a successful trip to the court is possible.

    I would at the beginning of your presentation present some house-keeping rules like:
    1 – No recording or photos.
    2 – Declare that anyone using any of the material presented will be dealt with. (A slide saying so in the presentation to push this point if possible)

    You could even say that already legal advice has been sought and legal action is currently being stated. – and watch them quickly do a runner.

    Copy all your work by including :material blah blah blah…. can not be copied or used without the consent of the author

    #1165943
    Stuart B
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    Sorry but before we all race down the legal/smash pathway here I just wanted to ask a few questions…

    What is the nature of the presentations? Presumably they’re attending to learn something and you’re not just sitting around chatting…
    If they’re there to learn something then I would fully expect people to go away and use the material they’ve learned if they’re switched on business people. Isn’t that the reason they’re attending? To gain knowledge?

    I understand the gripe about them presenting material and making it look like they came up with it, but seriously so what? You’ll spend your life chasing off people who are absorbing your material which seems to be the objective of presenting it to people anyway???

    I’ve started running seminars relating to online marketing and people can copy whatever they want. If they start a blog and write about stuff as though they came up with it then big deal, at the end of the day I’ll still be the expert they come to when they want to learn something next time around.

    I’m not a lawyer but I think it would be a hard battle proving the material they were publishing was only gained as a result of your presentation, and who wants to fight those battles anyway.

    My opinion is that if you feel like you’re getting a bad deal out of it because the info you’re sharing is so valuable, then you need to raise your prices so it feels worth it for you.

    #1165944
    Dave Gillen – Former FS Concierge
    Keymaster
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    Hi Claire,

    How could you pitch to them an opportunity to use you as their advisor and a source of credibility for their blog? Maybe they pay you, or maybe you do it for free to promote yourself as the expert. It could be you writing the articles or just them giving you the acknowledgement.

    Whichever way you see it working, make it a no brainer for them (highlight how it will benefit them – less work? more credibility? etc).

    If they have a large audience then this will give you great exposure. If you don’t feel it’s an opportunity for you (i.e. they have a small audience or don’t feel the blog will go anywhere) then you can rest assured that not many people are reading it anyway.

    An alternative idea is to publish it first! Having your own original blog will limit the value of a copied blog (and you can prove any plagiarism). If you truly think the benefit they are deriving from the blog is significant then you might as well get those benefits for yourself.

    Good luck!

    Dave

    #1165945
    Totally Awesome
    Member
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    Octopus Labs, post: 192232 wrote:
    Sorry but before we all race down the legal/smash pathway here I just wanted to ask a few questions…

    What is the nature of the presentations? Presumably they’re attending to learn something and you’re not just sitting around chatting…
    If they’re there to learn something then I would fully expect people to go away and use the material they’ve learned if they’re switched on business people. Isn’t that the reason they’re attending? To gain knowledge?

    I’ve run programs and workshops… and I expect people to use the material – for personal use- not to go round and run their own shows claiming it’s all their ideas.

    And yes, I have incorporated material from others that is appropriate… but I acknowledged the source and where possible, asked for permission.

    Octopus Labs, post: 192232 wrote:
    I understand the gripe about them presenting material and making it look like they came up with it, but seriously so what? You’ll spend your life chasing off people who are absorbing your material which seems to be the objective of presenting it to people anyway??? .

    So what????? My time and my effort. You want to get on the bus…. buy a ticket.

    Octopus Labs, post: 192232 wrote:
    I’ve started running seminars relating to online marketing and people can copy whatever they want. If they start a blog and write about stuff as though they came up with it then big deal, at the end of the day I’ll still be the expert they come to when they want to learn something next time around.

    Ok, let’s say I copy (over 90% the same) your work…… then incorporate (copy) what others do better than you. So now who now is the expert?

    Octopus Labs, post: 192232 wrote:
    I’m not a lawyer but I think it would be a hard battle proving the material they were publishing was only gained as a result of your presentation, and who wants to fight those battles anyway.

    A while back I had produced a brochure and cassette tape (shows how long ago :D ) for a not for profit support group.

    Not long after a ‘for profit’ service produced a very similar brochure to promote their services in the same field. They charged, my group relied on donations.

    A “Cease and desist” letter (giving them 7 days to do so) and a summons issued on the 7th day did it’s job.

    Most people, and especially those who need to resort to copying, can not afford a visit to the court rooms. If they could, they wouldn’t need to copy other people’s work.

    Octopus Labs, post: 192232 wrote:
    My opinion is that if you feel like you’re getting a bad deal out of it because the info you’re sharing is so valuable, then you need to raise your prices so it feels worth it for you.

    My opinion is that if someone wants to siphon fuel out of MY car so they can drive THEIR car then I’m going to do whatever is necessary to stop them from stealing.

    Price is not always money…. it can also be expecting respect and honesty. That in many cases is worth a lot more than dollars.

    #1165946
    Stuart B
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    Totally Awesome, post: 192250 wrote:
    So what????? My time and my effort. You want to get on the bus…. buy a ticket.

    You’re pretty much agreeing with my point, if people were paying for the material it wouldn’t have such a sting.

    Totally Awesome, post: 192250 wrote:
    Ok, let’s say I copy (over 90% the same) your work…… then incorporate (copy) what others do better than you. So now who now is the expert?

    Most professionals have either learned, studied, or gathered knowledge from a variety of sources rather than invented it all themselves. Reworking and using it for your own purposes happens every day everywhere.

    There are a lot of examples which show that trying to lock up content from that “bad people” really doesn’t work, because if they really want the content they’re going to get it and you have to go through a lot of money, effort, and stress to put barriers in place which at the end of the day won’t stop them anyway if they’re determined. Not to mention stifling innovation.

    Much better to figure out a way to increase the benefit of sharing it, increase positive possibilities, rather than being the gatekeeper and hoarding it all up.

    #1165947
    Totally Awesome
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    You’re pretty much agreeing with my point, if people were paying for the material it wouldn’t have such a sting.

    I wasn’t referring to the ‘customer’ but the ‘seller’ who thinks it ok to power his lights with an extension lead plugged into my power point.

    Yes, there needs to be some “cost” to those attending but then a FREE seminar is to show people what the cost is.. and the benefit achieved. It is not so that someone can rip off the person (presenter) who has already paid the price of study, time putting it together, hiring the hall etc etc.

    Most professionals have either learned, studied, or gathered knowledge from a variety of sources rather than invented it all themselves. Reworking and using it for your own purposes happens every day everywhere.

    There are a lot of examples which show that trying to lock up content from that “bad people” really doesn’t work, because if they really want the content they’re going to get it and you have to go through a lot of money, effort, and stress to put barriers in place which at the end of the day won’t stop them anyway if they’re determined. Not to mention stifling innovation.

    Much better to figure out a way to increase the benefit of sharing it, increase positive possibilities, rather than being the gatekeeper and hoarding it all up.

    Well at least we seem to be rowing the boat in the same direction with this now. :) :)

    Yes, most Professionals have. As much as we would like to think that we have reinvented the wheel all we have done is changed the colour of the rim and learnt that nitrogen-filled tyres gives you a slight edge over air-filled.

    But what I am reading from the OP is not about MOST but the very small minority.

    When Japan decided to get into mass production of motor vehicles one manufacturer copied the design of the Morris Minor motor for their cars.
    My water pressure sprayer motor is made in China but is a direct copy of an earlier model Honda motor.

    We can not lock up content but surely we can prevent someone who released a blog almost identical to one of my key slides (Steps 1 -5, as well as a written version of what I said

    Professionals do rework what others have done before them. The wheel has already been invented so all we can do is try to make it better.

    But someone who records the work of another and releases it “almost identical” is not what I regard as being a Professional. They are merely leaches who are out to make a quick buck without needing to dig into their own pocket.

    The majority are true professionals…. it’s the few who simply no more than rip-off artists.

    #1165948
    Stuart B
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    I agree, if there’s been little attempt to create something new based on the original and it’s basically a copy that’s not cool.

    Ok let’s taken ’em to court!!!!! Where’s my pitch-fork? lol

    #1165949
    Totally Awesome
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    Octopus Labs, post: 192285 wrote:
    I agree, if there’s been little attempt to create something new based on the original and it’s basically a copy that’s not cool.

    Ok let’s taken ’em to court!!!!! Where’s my pitch-fork? lol

    lol Make them watch reruns of The Brady Bunch.

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