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  • #999127
    Johny
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    [ATTACH=full]1615[/ATTACH]

    #1217926
    bb1
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    The left are all those who believe the answers on forums such as this, the right are those who actually research and seek the correct professional help, not just someone who has hung out a shingle saying I am the greatest.

    #1217927
    Greg_M
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    If the plebs didn’t turn left, there wouldn’t be any opportunities for the rest of us ;)

    I think where ‘digital’ marketing is concerned it’s about to get very complex (if it wasn’t already).

    I just happened to be watching some videos of a recent “Google Firebase” conference in Europe.

    Some of the tools available to developers are getting scary imo…

    How about being able to segment your users with AI (in real time) , AB test them and send targeted stuff straight to them and analyse results in real time?

    Or, maybe seamlessly shift them to a native app on mobile, whose link data is actually appearing in Google search results for mobile users.

    Even alter web app features based on the device quality of the live user.

    Complex, but some of this stuff is going to make conventional web properties look stone age in competitive segments of the market.

    BTW Googles expectation is that stuff like this can be delivered to end users in about 2 seconds max (on a 3G connection).

    I think some of the tossers with their shingles out might not last long in this environment.

    Luckily, flyers in letterboxes are still predictable.

    #1217928
    Johny
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    If the plebs didn’t turn left, there wouldn’t be any opportunities for the rest of us

    HA. True Greg.

    My personal view is that for sure, not every answer is complicated, and indeed some make it more complicated than it needs to be. But as per Bert’s comment, research is key.

    I am hardly a guru at all this, but was reading just recently that facebook is having trouble monetizing the current trends such as video etc. when also trying to increase user content over newsfeeds.

    That’s what will drive it – how to make money via our ever shrinking, goldfish sized, attention spans.

    #1217929
    Greg_M
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    Johny, post: 262823, member: 34822 wrote:
    HA. True Greg.

    My personal view is that for sure, not every answer is complicated, and indeed some make it more complicated than it needs to be. But as per Bert’s comment, research is key.

    I am hardly a guru at all this, but was reading just recently that facebook is having trouble monetizing the current trends such as video etc. when also trying to increase user content over newsfeeds.

    That’s what will drive it – how to make money via our ever shrinking, goldfish sized, attention spans.

    I agree, it doesn’t have to be complicated.

    But I’m continually surprised by how often new businesses don’t check out, or even guesstimate basic demand before launching…then arrive here looking for clues on how to get customers (which leaves a perfect opening for someone polishing their shingle).

    Historically empires rise and fall, seems to me the timeline is much shorter in the digital space (remember when Microsoft ruled the world). Can’t see why Facebook or Google are any different…leave a gap in consumer demand and someone smart will take it.

    I don’t use Facebook so I can’t comment about how they’re travelling, but I am using a lot of Google products and from what I’ve seen and used, they seem to be throwing lots of $ at developers to make sure they stay near the leading edge of whatever’s next (and I think they’re looking at stuff way beyond ads on search engines).

    Interestingly (to me), they send me a lot of digital marketing case studies, in that mix there is never any SEO gobbledegook, just hard numbers on what works and why. Not some rubbish about H1 tags.

    My gut feel from what I’m seeing from Google is that AI and data analysis on individual users will primarily determine what appears in their search results, not text hooks from a mountain of targeted copy. Maybe connected to your comment on attention span?

    May we live in interesting times.

    #1217930
    bb1
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    I think I miss understood this thread, I thought it was aimed at business in general, but I see it has taken a marketing direction.

    What [USER=34822]@Johny[/USER] has put up is very relevant to all business issues, be it accounting, use by date on food labelling, marketing, etc, etc.

    So many take the left path with any issue related to business, for the simple reason it is easy to obtain,

    #1217931
    Johny
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    Greg, I often wonder how much of this is about tech and how much is actually about attitude.

    It’s like when we want to quantify something we trot out the big names and use those as examples to follow. But those big names represent a tiny fraction of what is happening out there, and to be honest, I don’t want a world dominated by a few players anyway.

    There is another discussion on here about entrepreneurs. Not sure we can really even decide what one is – certainly my definition is much more concise than just ” someone who runs a business”.

    I can provide a really good example of what I mean.

    I am currently having a spat with my Australian bank (which I Can’t Bother Acknowledging).

    They are currently promoting their app, which I am lead to believe is the most wonderful thing the world has even seen.

    Over the weekend I had problems with my online banking requiring me to make an extended international call to try to resolve it.

    The only way I can resolve it is to be identified. According to the bank, the only way I can be identified is by sending a fax including copies of various ID documents, copies of signatures and specific instructions. Emails can be hacked you see.

    On suggesting I don’t have access to a fax because it is now the 21st century, I am sent an email explaining how I can go to any number of places hotels, post office, even McDonalds, who I am assured still uses fax machines.

    My reply:-

    1. Requesting they send a fax to my nearest McDonalds and have it walked to me, because I too understand that emails can be hacked and given the number of large companies who have had data hacked I cannot be sure it is from my bank
    2. Not only would they need to hack my email, they would need to know my online passwords, and have access to my personal ID documents. If they had all that, they could do it all by fax anyway.
    3. They say they are concerned about my privacy but are expecting me to provide private information to a third party in order to fax it, in effect holding me to ransom
    4. If a dullard like me can use something basic like skype or whatsapp where they can see in real time that I am who I claim to be, then surely the gurus in the bank can come up with something better than “send a fax”.
    5. They apologized for my inconvenience to which I replied they cannot possibly be sorry because they are the ones creating the inconvenience, hiding behind the rule book instead of seeking a proactive solution.
    6. And a bit more which I won’t go into.

    I am still waiting for a further reply, but am expecting to have to comply in the end if I want to see my money again. At least I got to vent a bit I suppose.

    But the point is that this is the culture many a new business owner is coming from. There is plenty of commentary around to suggest an aversion to risk, borne out by working in that type of environment. Noone just changes overnight.

    I reckon the majority of us will always be followers to varying degrees – taking the easiest route, doing the things we are used to rather than those that make us uncomfortable, and taking the cheapest option.

    Some marketers are doing a wonderful job of exploiting that.

    #1217932
    Johny
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    I think I miss understood this thread, I thought it was aimed at business in general, but I see it has taken a marketing direction.

    Nah. Glad to hear any comments Bert. Happy for the discussion to take any direction.

    #1217933
    Greg_M
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    bb1, post: 262835, member: 53375 wrote:
    I think I miss understood this thread, I thought it was aimed at business in general, but I see it has taken a marketing direction.

    What [USER=34822]@Johny[/USER] has put up is very relevant to all business issues, be it accounting, use by date on food labelling, marketing, etc, etc.

    So many take the left path with any issue related to business, for the simple reason it is easy to obtain,

    Hi Bert,

    I’m notorious for getting off topic (and I would have) but noticed we were in the “marketing” zone, so kind of picked on that theme.

    There’s no doubt it applies to all areas of business and probably life in general…happy to go with the flow, marketing or not.

    #1217934
    Greg_M
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    Johny, post: 262837, member: 34822 wrote:
    Greg, I often wonder how much of this is about tech and how much is actually about attitude.

    It’s like when we want to quantify something we trot out the big names and use those as examples to follow. But those big names represent a tiny fraction of what is happening out there, and to be honest, I don’t want a world dominated by a few players anyway.

    There is another discussion on here about entrepreneurs. Not sure we can really even decide what one is – certainly my definition is much more concise than just ” someone who runs a business”.

    I can provide a really good example of what I mean.

    I am currently having a spat with my Australian bank (which I Can’t Bother Acknowledging).

    They are currently promoting their app, which I am lead to believe is the most wonderful thing the world has even seen.

    Over the weekend I had problems with my online banking requiring me to make an extended international call to try to resolve it.

    The only way I can resolve it is to be identified. According to the bank, the only way I can be identified is by sending a fax including copies of various ID documents, copies of signatures and specific instructions. Emails can be hacked you see.

    On suggesting I don’t have access to a fax because it is now the 21st century, I am sent an email explaining how I can go to any number of places hotels, post office, even McDonalds, who I am assured still uses fax machines.

    My reply:-

    1. Requesting they send a fax to my nearest McDonalds and have it walked to me, because I too understand that emails can be hacked and given the number of large companies who have had data hacked I cannot be sure it is from my bank
    2. Not only would they need to hack my email, they would need to know my online passwords, and have access to my personal ID documents. If they had all that, they could do it all by fax anyway.
    3. They say they are concerned about my privacy but are expecting me to provide private information to a third party in order to fax it, in effect holding me to ransom
    4. If a dullard like me can use something basic like skype or whatsapp where they can see in real time that I am who I claim to be, then surely the gurus in the bank can come up with something better than “send a fax”.
    5. They apologized for my inconvenience to which I replied they cannot possibly be sorry because they are the ones creating the inconvenience, hiding behind the rule book instead of seeking a proactive solution.
    6. And a bit more which I won’t go into.

    I am still waiting for a further reply, but am expecting to have to comply in the end if I want to see my money again. At least I got to vent a bit I suppose.

    But the point is that this is the culture many a new business owner is coming from. There is plenty of commentary around to suggest an aversion to risk, borne out by working in that type of environment. Noone just changes overnight.

    I reckon the majority of us will always be followers to varying degrees – taking the easiest route, doing the things we are used to rather than those that make us uncomfortable, and taking the cheapest option.

    Some marketers are doing a wonderful job of exploiting that.

    Ha ha…WTF is a fax? Nothing surprises me about banks.

    Why aren’t they using bio metrics, say via a smart phone?

    The tech is there and generally working and growing at an exponential rate (frightening in fact), albeit with some caveats, the main one being security of data imo.

    I’m not so sure if it’s attitude, or a very poor level of understanding (or inclination to become informed) of the “big’ picture of where tech is going and how to utilise it effectively.

    Your bank is a perfect example. If a large organisation like a big 4 bank is struggling, we still have a long way to go…

    I’ll bet someone in the banks marketing/strategy dept decided everyone’s gone mobile so we need an app to enhance internet banking and capture the growth… we’ll figure out how to deal with this stuff efficiently sometime before the next Royal Commission.

    I’ll stick by my original statement that empires rise and fall, banks included. If not them, someone will figure out a more seamless approach and hopefully eat them for breakfast.

    BTW I’m having similar ID issues trying to collect a piffling amount of Super I gained working a casual job for a couple of months.

    On reflection, it probably is about attitude in the more general sense. Maybe a good dose of “the recession we had to have” is needed. I’m old enough to remember how tough it was then. I learned more about business and survival in those couple of years than the other 40 odd I’ve been working, if your attitude sucked you went hungry.

    #1217935
    bb1
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    Johny, post: 262837, member: 34822 wrote:
    It’s like when we want to quantify something we trot out the big names and use those as examples to follow. But those big names represent a tiny fraction of what is happening out there, and to be honest, I don’t want a world dominated by a few players anyway.

    Spot on, sadly there are some on here who often sprout the big names, and think that because they know all the big names whatever they say is correct. On their shingle they will have as their expertise ”big name pretender”, but little substance behind it, again leading people down the left hand path.

    #1217936
    Paul – FS Concierge
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    I had an interesting experience when I joined the Executive of a NGO.

    I made the point repeatedly, that we (the Executive) made the rules (such as the dumb fax rule that Johny talks about), and we can un-make, delete, change or create new rules anytime we want ie, when it makes sense to do so.

    I saw countless examples of people accepting dumb rules made up by humans just like us without questioning them and I could just never fathom why they would accept dumb, made up stuff so easily.

    #1217937
    Johny
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    I saw countless examples of people accepting dumb rules made up by humans just like us without questioning them and I could just never fathom why they would accept dumb, made up stuff so easily.

    Paul, I was at a function last Monday night. Two companies at the event were promoting their vegan burgers. (Taste like meat??? – yeah right, but that’s another story)

    Both of these companies were using the tactic of saying that eating meat contributes to climate change. They both quoted what now seems to be the common belief that the meat industry contributes more to climate change than the entire transport industry.

    That sounds like a ridiculous situation to me, but hey, I have seen other outlandish claims that actually appear to be true. (Case in point – It has been suggested China poured more concrete from 2011-2013 than the US did in the whole of the 20th Century – commonly quoted where I am and haven’t seen anything that disputes this. An almost unbelievable stat if it is true.)

    Because it sounds outlandish, the next day I did a bit of research and read some other information on the subject. I read this article that suggests the climate change argument is flawed, and has subseguently been changed.

    https://theconversation.com/amp/yes-eating-meat-affects-the-environment-but-cows-are-not-killing-the-climate-94968

    Most have heard the argument of meat being such a large contributor to climate change, how many have heard of the retraction?

    That, in my mind, goes some way towards answering your comment. Anything from only reading the headline and not the whole story, to just believing what falls inline with our own beliefs.

    Having said that, I don’t put myself about all this. I spent 16 years in banking and cannot say I didn’t obediently follow the rules mostly, especially in my early days when I had no authority and limited experience.. I did however have quite a few occasions where I was admonished for taking a common sense approach to situations where the rules didn’t seem to be quite right.

    Back in the 80’s and 90’s though we weren’t living in a world where everyone is apparently innovative and disruptive.

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