Home – New Forums Tech talk Organic vs. Paid Search Results: Organic Wins 94% of Time

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  • #1116663
    MatthewKeath
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    themot, post: 133097 wrote:
    In my mind Google know they are giving too much away for free with their organic results and are hell bent on making them more and more volatile to push people towards adwords.Thats a huge claim.

    Google putting their reputation at risk by purposly creating volatility in the search results in order to get more advertising revenue. It strikes me as a very short sighted business strategy.

    Much more plausible is that they are trying to stop SEO companies manipulating the SERPs using methods that lessens the relevance of the search results.

    It’s about time Google.

    #1116664
    Zava Design
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    MatthewKeath, post: 133111 wrote:
    Much more plausible is that they are trying to stop SEO companies manipulating the SERPs using methods that lessens the relevance of the search results.

    It’s about time Google.
    Yep, agree.

    It would actually be a good thing if, rather than multiple searches for a popular phrase showing the same 10 sites on the front page each time, if it brought up a random 10 from the top 1,000 highest ranking sites each time, to give a more balanced result overall.

    #1116665
    Stuart B
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    themot, post: 133096 wrote:
    All you need is Google to update it’s algorithem or a competitor to attack your site with negative seo (which happened to me recently) and your ranking can dissapear very quickly.

    What is negative SEO?

    #1116666
    Divert To Mobile
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    @themot

    I dont think G is purposely making organic results volatile. I personally didn’t notice any changes from the last “shakeup” – thought that might not be exactly saying much anyay.

    Driving PPC by discrediting or destabilising the seo industry would be self defeating. The SEO industry is a serious contributor to the promotion of ppc advertising and G business execs know that.

    Steve

    #1116667
    Divert To Mobile
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    LemonChip, post: 133245 wrote:
    What is negative SEO?

    That would be SEO designed to negatively affect organic rankings. Could be intentionally done by a competitor. I would hazard a guess to say that would/should be illegal somewhere/somehow.

    Steve

    #1116668
    Stuart B
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    Divert To Mobile, post: 133250 wrote:
    That would be SEO designed to negatively affect organic rankings. Could be intentionally done by a competitor.

    Yes but what I meant was, how would you do that? I mean creating dodgy/spammy links with your competitors website? Would that even work?

    themot, post: 133097 wrote:
    In my mind Google know they are giving too much away for free with their organic results and are hell bent on making them more and more volatile to push people towards adwords.

    Is there any evidence to support this?

    #1116669
    themot
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    LemonChip, post: 133252 wrote:
    Is there any evidence to support this?

    Sure, I’ve been running an online business for the past few years and I’ve only seen search results for commercial terms become more and more volatile. It’s not just due to more competition either. I’ve all but abandoned organic search now because of the lottery it’s become. Up one month and no where the next, competitors bombing your site etc. Can’t grow a business like that.

    It’s great having top rankings, I used to hold some good positions for big commercial words previously (think 40k exact matchs + a month) but it’s just too unreliable. Google is doing this on purpose to force people in to paying for ads because it’s where they make their money.

    #1116670
    themot
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    LemonChip, post: 133245 wrote:
    What is negative SEO?

    Blasting your competitor with 20k spam links for the major terms they are targeting. Happened to me a month ago. Site was #1 now it’s on page 4. Pretty effective and can be done for the sort of pocket money you would throw in the church collection tray on a Sunday.

    #1116671
    themot
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    MatthewKeath, post: 133111 wrote:
    Thats a huge claim.

    Google putting their reputation at risk by purposly creating volatility in the search results in order to get more advertising revenue. It strikes me as a very short sighted business strategy.

    They got to number 1 by providing the best results once upon a time. They made their billions through Adwords. They are a public company, they have to constantly show growth or their share price will dive. Nudging people towards adwords is a great way to do that.

    MatthewKeath, post: 133111 wrote:
    Much more plausible is that they are trying to stop SEO companies manipulating the SERPs using methods that lessens the relevance of the search results.

    It’s about time Google.

    What? How are the results any more or less relevant now than they were 2 years ago? Why would an SEO company be manipulating the results in a negative way? At the end of the day they are there to make their clients money. If im selling tractors they are not going to optimise my site for garage doors. Generally the ones doing the most manipulating are the ones with the most relevant products that’s why they can afford to keep spending what they do on it because they are making constomers (searchers) happy.

    #1116672
    themot
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    Just to sum up what I was getting at, look at it like this.

    I have a business selling widgets. I want to grow said business online. I can either go for PPC/Organice search or just do organic search only.

    If I rely on organic search I could get to #1 for widgets, make money, employ people to make my widgets, move in to a bigger factory to make more widgets cause of all the demand! Life is good! One day Google decides to roll out the Zebra update and now im on page 3 only getting a trickle of traffic. I want to get in touch with Google to find out why I lost “my” spot but guess what, I can’t cause there is no way to contact them! :D Now I have to sell my excess stock at a loss, sack my employee’s and figure out a way to get out of my lease so I can down size.

    Now…

    I have a business selling widgets. I want to grow said business online with PPC. I can spend 5k a month on Adwords, optimise my campagn and see what kind of results I can achieve after 3 months.

    3 months pass…

    Wow, we just made 50k revenue from spending 5k. Not bad! We can continue to use this along with our other forms of advertising and we’ve got something we know will be profitable for us for the foreseeable future. If there’s any problems with it we can pick up the phone and call Google directly to discuss – http://support.google.com/adwords/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=1385067

    Now, if im trying to grow my business which is the better option? You can still get some traffic from organic traffic but to just rely on it is playing Russian roulette with your business. Google knows this, that’s why they are pushing more people towards adwords.

    #1116673
    JohnW
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    themot, post: 133640 wrote:
    I have a business selling widgets. I want to grow said business online. I can either go for PPC/Organice search or just do organic search only…

    Now, if im trying to grow my business which is the better option? You can still get some traffic from organic traffic but to just rely on it is playing Russian roulette with your business.
    Methinks you overlooked a few issues that can change the numbers in your analogy and sometimes very quickly. :)

    18 Sep 12: “TDL-4 variant spreads click-fraud campaign
    “More than 40 Fortune 500 companies are among the victims infected by the TDL-4 variant, as well as government agencies and ISP networks.”

    5 Sep 12: “40% of Mobile Clicks are Fraud?
    “In June 2012, we conducted a study of six million mobile clicks across 10 global ad networks. An enormous 40% of paid-for clicks were found to be completely worthless showing a conversion rate from click-to-download of below 0.1%. Further analysis showed that 18% of these were highly indicative of click fraud and 22% happened accidentally.”

    A couple of others…
    The Cost of Pay-Per-Click (PPC) Advertising—Trends and Analysis

    31 May 12: “Click Fraud: An Industry Epidemic?

    Doesn’t matter whether it is SEO or sponsored links, people need to be aware of the issues and pitfalls inherent in both approaches.

    Caveat emptor.
    JohnW

    #1116674
    MatthewKeath
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    themot, post: 133633 wrote:
    Sure, I’ve been running an online business for the past few years and I’ve only seen search results for commercial terms become more and more volatile. It’s not just due to more competition either. I’ve all but abandoned organic search now because of the lottery it’s become. Up one month and no where the next, competitors bombing your site etc. Can’t grow a business like that.

    It’s great having top rankings, I used to hold some good positions for big commercial words previously (think 40k exact matchs + a month) but it’s just too unreliable. Google is doing this on purpose to force people in to paying for ads because it’s where they make their money.By support he meant other references, documents or even informal SEO professional discussions that supports your original assertion apart from you own gut feeling.

    themot, post: 133635 wrote:
    What? How are the results any more or less relevant now than they were 2 years ago? Why would an SEO company be manipulating the results in a negative way? At the end of the day they are there to make their clients money. If im selling tractors they are not going to optimise my site for garage doors. Generally the ones doing the most manipulating are the ones with the most relevant products that’s why they can afford to keep spending what they do on it because they are making constomers (searchers) happy.Because they are doing it for clients, not the searches. If someone pays a SEO company to get to the number one spot, the SEO firm will try and get it there regardless if whether that site is relevant to the searcher.

    First it was keyword stuffing, now it’s poor back links. Google needs to ensure their SERPS are not being manipulated.

    #1116675
    Aidan
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    On the invalid click issue – you really don’t need to stress on that if you are with a major ppc provider like Google as the algorithm is very good at sniffing out invalid clicks and not charging you for them.

    I’m watching an account right now that is getting a lot of invalid clicks, its funny how in some industries people who should know better will still click on a competitors ads, often repeatedly, ‘to cost the competitors money’ without realising that Google actively works against this! The clicks are not charged to the advertiser but the advertiser is aware it is happening!

    The clickers should put their time and efforts back into their businesses but each to their own devices… :)

    #1116676
    Snakeman
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    Interesting comments.

    We were recently link bombed by our rivals and knocked from one on page one of google to bottom of page two – and we own the trademark and exact match domain!!!
    So the rivals are now using our trademark to ocvertly steal our clients – dog eat dog world out there…

    All the best

    #1116677
    themot
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    Snakeman, post: 133999 wrote:
    Interesting comments.

    We were recently link bombed by our rivals and knocked from one on page one of google to bottom of page two – and we own the trademark and exact match domain!!!

    Yep, but the holier than thou white hatter SEO’s out there will tell you it’s not true – bulldust it isn’t! As I keep saying, rely on organic search at your own peril.

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