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  • #964561
    @HeatherSmithAU
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    OK I will pay, I am not a non-paying type.

    I asked a colleague to do some work for me. I discussed my requirements on the phone, and re-clarified everything in writing.

    They went away, and delivered the end result.

    I know they spent time on it.

    However the end result did not work.

    I questioned them about this and they said ~ what I asked for can not be done, they knew it could not be done before they started the work and they gave me the best alternative.

    However the ‘delivered product’ is completely unusable by me.

    I am annoyed that I am paying and not getting what I want. They are both a colleague and a friend, and it is only a small amount of money. I don’t want to loose my friendship with them.

    Should I say anything?

    #1006532
    Dardee
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    If it is only a small amount of money I would write it off to experience and move on. I would however tell them it was unusable and make them aware you were disappointed with the result.

    I don’t know how you treat business with friends but I always deal with friends at arms length, meaning I treat them as if they were any other client. That way if there is ever a problem it is a “normal” business transaction and discounted rates or favours do not come into it. It saves one party feeling ripped off by the other.

    Of course the key element is to be upfront and tell them that its the way it will be. I’ve never had a problem doing this. The only problems I’ve had were when favours were involved.

    Once bitten, twice shy.

    #1006533
    @HeatherSmithAU
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    Thanks Darren – I should clarify they were business acquaintances first – but most business acquaintances become my friend – Brisbane is a small place!

    #1006534
    LeelaCosgrove
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    Absolutely not!

    The difference between being in business and being an employee is simply this … businesses get paid on RESULTS – not on hours worked. I think this is the hardest thing for a lot of new business people (and even some people who have been in business for awhile!) to get their heads around.

    If you don’t produce the end result that you were hired to produce then you don’t get paid- period.

    “Oh, but we spent TIME on it … “

    Right.

    So if I came to you to do my books for me … and you instead made me a ham sandwich … which you then charged me for – because, you know, it took TIME to make it … you put RESOURCES into it … should I pay you?

    If you didn’t get what was outlined in the original agreement, then you don’t pay.

    If it wasn’t possible to produce it, they should have talked that through with you and given you the other options to choose from so that you could make a decision based on your needs.

    Not just give you a ham sandwich, hope your books get done somehow … and charge you for the privilege.

    At the end of the day you are doing them a DISservice if you let this pass by without saying anything … because if they think this is an acceptable way to do business, they are going to find themselves in hot water with someone before too long … possibly dragged through court … possibly losing their business, money and things they own because of it.

    #1006535
    @HeatherSmithAU
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    Leela,

    Wow you are passionate about this.

    I will have ongoing relationships with these people probably for the rest of my working life – I am not in a position to avoid that.

    I think I do need to tell them – you are right – perhaps I could ask them what should I have said to make you realise that I only needed what I described, so you would not gone ahead and worked on this.

    I had a look at your website it looks really interesting – I must be an oddball – I find both accounting and writing exciting :)

    Leela your linkedin button is not working on flying solo – I think you have two lots of https in there. I did as well last night until I fixed it.

    Thanks for taking the time to respond – with so much passion!!!

    #1006536
    MissieK
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    Definately say something – especially if what you wanted in the first place couldn’t be done, they should have said something before they did work on it!

    Melissa

    #1006537
    Burgo
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    Although you are not happy with the end result you will probable pay for the work done.
    However you have every right to express your dissappiontment and concern, and by doing so you will gain more respect from these people.
    As you will need to work with them in future, you need to make things crystal clear about how you feel and what you expect.
    Only Good will come from speaking your mind.

    Leela expresses her thoughts beautifully

    #1006538
    quinn12
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    I think they should tell you that the work given by you can’t be done and they are going to provide a best alternative for that. They should take permission for that before starting the work. If you really don’t want to disturb your relationship, pay them. Otherwise i would not suggest you for that.

    #1006539
    Adam Randall
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    I will take an alternative view on this, although on face value I have to agree that if you asked for one thing explicitly and they said they could deliver and then did not and the circumstances did not change then I can understand you being angry.

    Here are some exceptions I can think of:

    Client: Mr mechanic, I want my car fixed, its urgent and I just need it done right away, please dont bore me with the details.

    Mechanic: OK, give me the keys and we will see what we can do.

    Mechanic: we spent 4 hours on the problem and its actually going to cost more than the cars worth if we go ahead with the repair.

    Client: But you promised it would be fixed, I am not paying, you have not provided a result I requested! I have nothing to show for the money spent. You are a nasty, nasty man and I am going to tell everyone I know about this dreadful incident.

    ****************************

    For me I would need to know more about what was requested and how a resonable person would say it could be done only to turn round and say it cannot be done.

    Did they know at the time that it was not possible?

    Did they show hesitation when taking on the job?

    Also when I do time and materials I specifically state that we work based on time not on result. I dont think there is an issue with doing things this way.

    Offering a fixed price on simple items or on items of a known quantity is easy, when you dont know yourself how long something is going to take, how can you give a price based on a result? You end up with the situation this post is about.

    It also seems in the original post that they provided a product at the end of the agreement. Why was it not usable for you? Was it reasonable to expect the person to know what would work for you?

    It would be great to hear the details so reasonable advice can be given.

    #1006540
    beanydc
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    Isn’t the relationship broken – or at least not as whole as it was? It’s not like you’re going to trust them again in a hurry.

    As a friend, don’t you owe it to them to be honest? It’s not a lot different to having food on teeth, is it – you’d want it pointed out?

    And as a colleague, is there harm in allowing an inappropriate behaviour to continue without comment?

    Denise

    MYOB, post: 5860 wrote:
    OK I will pay, I am not a non-paying type.

    I am annoyed that I am paying and not getting what I want. They are both a colleague and a friend, and it is only a small amount of money. I don’t want to loose my friendship with them.

    Should I say anything?

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