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  • #977109
    Uncomplicating
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    I had two threads taken down this morning because I was perceived to have broken the code of conduct. The two threads in question were somewhat disparaging about the service and product quality provided by two now unnamed internet advertising vehicles.

    The policy states, “Public disputes: Flying Solo is not the appropriate channel for disputes or arguments between named individuals or companies. Any gripes should be taken up directly with the company concerned. It is our policy not to get involved, and any such discussions will be edited to remove names, or more likely, deleted.”

    As far as I can determine, this policy prevents anyone from posting negative commentary about the quality of a named product or service. This means that I now can’t tell you how utterly useless vendor A was in not returning my repeated email contacts. And I also won’t be telling you that the product and service of vendor B were terrible and that you would be best to avoid them, and certainly shouldn’t pay them any money.

    Nope, I’m now obliged to follow that mantra of mediocrity, “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all”.

    It goes without saying that I disagree with the FS Forum “police”, but they have applied the law and I will of course abide by it.

    But I am very disappointed that free speech and open and honest, if somewhat opinionated, communication are being stifled for what appears to be a drive towards a rather sludgy and medicore future where everyone gets a prize, even when they come last.

    #1091499
    victorng
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    UncomplicatingIT, post: 107598 wrote:
    Nope, I’m now obliged to follow that mantra of mediocrity, “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all”. But I am very disappointed that free speech and open and honest, if somewhat opinionated, communication are being stifled for what appears to be a drive towards a rather sludgy and medicore future where everyone gets a prize, even when they come last.

    I don’t get it when people on forums complain about the forum rules. You’re not obliged to do anything. If you don’t like the ‘mediocrity’ of this forum’s rules, go to another forum.

    The rules don’t restrict open and honest communication. They simply say that this is not the place to publicly air your gripes about named companies. Sludgy? No, it stops this forum being an unverified gripe-fest that drowns out the useful and constructive exchanges. That would be sludgy.

    There are tons of forums on the internet where you can have a good whinge. In fact, I’m pretty sure you’ll be able to find a forum where you can have a whinge about this forum… exercise your free choice and I’m sure you’ll find somewhere to exercise your free speech.

    #1091661
    victorng
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    UncomplicatingIT, post: 107598 wrote:
    Nope, I’m now obliged to follow that mantra of mediocrity, “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all”. But I am very disappointed that free speech and open and honest, if somewhat opinionated, communication are being stifled for what appears to be a drive towards a rather sludgy and medicore future where everyone gets a prize, even when they come last.

    I don’t get it when people on forums complain about the forum rules. You’re not obliged to do anything. If you don’t like the ‘mediocrity’ of this forum’s rules, go to another forum.

    The rules don’t restrict open and honest communication. They simply say that this is not the place to publicly air your gripes about named companies. Sludgy? No, it stops this forum being an unverified gripe-fest that drowns out the useful and constructive exchanges. That would be sludgy.

    There are tons of forums on the internet where you can have a good whinge. In fact, I’m pretty sure you’ll be able to find a forum where you can have a whinge about this forum… exercise your free choice and I’m sure you’ll find somewhere to exercise your free speech.

    #1091663
    Peter – FS Administrator
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    Hi Stewart,

    This is a common challenge and one that can polarise opinion.

    We most certainly support open discussion and debate, while also remaining committed to creating a small business community that is friendly, supportive and constructive.

    Over the years we have developed comprehensive community guidelines with input from many members. The relevant guidelines around public dispute are:

    The Golden Rule: respect: While Flying Solo supports open discussion and debate, we are committed to keeping things friendly, supportive and constructive. Please treat your fellow community members with courtesy and respect.

    Public disputes: Flying Solo is not the appropriate channel for disputes or arguments between named individuals or companies. Any gripes should be taken up directly with the company concerned. It is our policy not to get involved, and any such discussions will be edited to remove names, or more likely, deleted.

    The big picture is, we just don’t want to become a place where businesses or individuals host conflict or complaints with each other – whether it might be justified or not. There’s lots of places for that online already and it’s not where we want to be.

    Even the best businesses get disgruntled customers from time to time and there are many public spaces online to air grievances, this is not something we want to host on Flying Solo. Editing threads to remove company names is not always practical and often means the resulting discussion doesn’t flow – however we do that if practical where the discussion is still valuable.

    We do aim to take a light handed approach to moderation which is why you’ll find many threads providing feedback good and bad on lots of companies. We don’t delete them until we deem they move outside the guidelines on ‘disputes or arguments between named individuals or companies’ which can move into the defamation area.

    Trying to judge the fairness or otherwise of complaints in the court of public opinion is not usually possible.

    It’s a balance we work hard to maintain but one we won’t always get right and as always, we’re very open to to hearing more community feedback and comments, as you have rightly given, and continually adjust things as we go.

    Cheers,
    Peter

    #1091500
    Peter – FS Administrator
    Member
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    Hi Stewart,

    This is a common challenge and one that can polarise opinion.

    We most certainly support open discussion and debate, while also remaining committed to creating a small business community that is friendly, supportive and constructive.

    Over the years we have developed comprehensive community guidelines with input from many members. The relevant guidelines around public dispute are:

    The Golden Rule: respect: While Flying Solo supports open discussion and debate, we are committed to keeping things friendly, supportive and constructive. Please treat your fellow community members with courtesy and respect.

    Public disputes: Flying Solo is not the appropriate channel for disputes or arguments between named individuals or companies. Any gripes should be taken up directly with the company concerned. It is our policy not to get involved, and any such discussions will be edited to remove names, or more likely, deleted.

    The big picture is, we just don’t want to become a place where businesses or individuals host conflict or complaints with each other – whether it might be justified or not. There’s lots of places for that online already and it’s not where we want to be.

    Even the best businesses get disgruntled customers from time to time and there are many public spaces online to air grievances, this is not something we want to host on Flying Solo. Editing threads to remove company names is not always practical and often means the resulting discussion doesn’t flow – however we do that if practical where the discussion is still valuable.

    We do aim to take a light handed approach to moderation which is why you’ll find many threads providing feedback good and bad on lots of companies. We don’t delete them until we deem they move outside the guidelines on ‘disputes or arguments between named individuals or companies’ which can move into the defamation area.

    Trying to judge the fairness or otherwise of complaints in the court of public opinion is not usually possible.

    It’s a balance we work hard to maintain but one we won’t always get right and as always, we’re very open to to hearing more community feedback and comments, as you have rightly given, and continually adjust things as we go.

    Cheers,
    Peter

    #1091665
    seocourse
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    UncomplicatingIT, post: 107598 wrote:
    Nope, I’m now obliged to follow that mantra of mediocrity, “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all”.

    I don’t understand why you are using the word “obliged” .
    You are not obliged to type flyingsolo.com.au in your browser.
    You are not obliged to login.
    You are not obliged to post.

    Are you?

    #1091501
    seocourse
    Member
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    UncomplicatingIT, post: 107598 wrote:
    Nope, I’m now obliged to follow that mantra of mediocrity, “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all”.

    I don’t understand why you are using the word “obliged” .
    You are not obliged to type flyingsolo.com.au in your browser.
    You are not obliged to login.
    You are not obliged to post.

    Are you?

    #1091502
    Uncomplicating
    Member
    • Total posts: 731
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    seocourse, post: 107606 wrote:
    I don’t understand why you are using the word “obliged” .
    You are not obliged to type flyingsolo.com.au in your browser.
    You are not obliged to login.
    You are not obliged to post.

    Are you?

    By having open and frank discussions and providing constructive feedback, those who determine and administer policy can guage what their users think. If their policy is found to be wanting, they can adjust it accordingly.

    If all that happens is the user base sit there and say nothing, perhaps think the administrators are beyond question, Peter and the team can do nothing. Without constructive criticism, product providers are dead in the water.

    I like FS. I’m a Business class member. I pay for this service because I feel that it can help me greatly. Because I pay for this product, I want it to survive and to go from strength to strength.

    I questioned the policy because I felt that it wasn’t quite right and that perhaps in this instance the baby was being thrown out with the bathwater. If the result of this thread is that the policy remains the same, so be it. I’m more than happy to go with the concensus. Had the respondents said they thought it wasn’t quite right FS might have been changed a little.

    It would seem in this instance that my opinion may not be that of the majority and that’s fine. I’m a grown up and I can understand that we all see things that bit differently.

    So to answer your questions, no, I’m not obliged to login and post. But then, who is?

    #1091667
    Uncomplicating
    Member
    • Total posts: 731
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    seocourse, post: 107606 wrote:
    I don’t understand why you are using the word “obliged” .
    You are not obliged to type flyingsolo.com.au in your browser.
    You are not obliged to login.
    You are not obliged to post.

    Are you?

    By having open and frank discussions and providing constructive feedback, those who determine and administer policy can guage what their users think. If their policy is found to be wanting, they can adjust it accordingly.

    If all that happens is the user base sit there and say nothing, perhaps think the administrators are beyond question, Peter and the team can do nothing. Without constructive criticism, product providers are dead in the water.

    I like FS. I’m a Business class member. I pay for this service because I feel that it can help me greatly. Because I pay for this product, I want it to survive and to go from strength to strength.

    I questioned the policy because I felt that it wasn’t quite right and that perhaps in this instance the baby was being thrown out with the bathwater. If the result of this thread is that the policy remains the same, so be it. I’m more than happy to go with the concensus. Had the respondents said they thought it wasn’t quite right FS might have been changed a little.

    It would seem in this instance that my opinion may not be that of the majority and that’s fine. I’m a grown up and I can understand that we all see things that bit differently.

    So to answer your questions, no, I’m not obliged to login and post. But then, who is?

    #1091669
    Uncomplicating
    Member
    • Total posts: 731
    Up
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    FS Administrator, post: 107605 wrote:
    Hi Stewart,

    This is a common challenge and one that can polarise opinion.

    We most certainly support open discussion and debate, while also remaining committed to creating a small business community that is friendly, supportive and constructive.

    Over the years we have developed comprehensive community guidelines with input from many members. The relevant guidelines around public dispute are:

    The big picture is, we just don’t want to become a place where businesses or individuals host conflict or complaints with each other – whether it might be justified or not. There’s lots of places for that online already and it’s not where we want to be.

    Even the best businesses get disgruntled customers from time to time and there are many public spaces online to air grievances, this is not something we want to host on Flying Solo. Editing threads to remove company names is not always practical and often means the resulting discussion doesn’t flow – however we do that if practical where the discussion is still valuable.

    We do aim to take a light handed approach to moderation which is why you’ll find many threads providing feedback good and bad on lots of companies. We don’t delete them until we deem they move outside the guidelines on ‘disputes or arguments between named individuals or companies’ which can move into the defamation area.

    Trying to judge the fairness or otherwise of complaints in the court of public opinion is not usually possible.

    It’s a balance we work hard to maintain but one we won’t always get right and as always, we’re very open to to hearing more community feedback and comments, as you have rightly given, and continually adjust things as we go.

    Cheers,
    Peter

    Whilst you and I don’t necessarily agree in this particular instance, I understand your actions.

    Thanks

    #1091503
    Uncomplicating
    Member
    • Total posts: 731
    Up
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    FS Administrator, post: 107605 wrote:
    Hi Stewart,

    This is a common challenge and one that can polarise opinion.

    We most certainly support open discussion and debate, while also remaining committed to creating a small business community that is friendly, supportive and constructive.

    Over the years we have developed comprehensive community guidelines with input from many members. The relevant guidelines around public dispute are:

    The big picture is, we just don’t want to become a place where businesses or individuals host conflict or complaints with each other – whether it might be justified or not. There’s lots of places for that online already and it’s not where we want to be.

    Even the best businesses get disgruntled customers from time to time and there are many public spaces online to air grievances, this is not something we want to host on Flying Solo. Editing threads to remove company names is not always practical and often means the resulting discussion doesn’t flow – however we do that if practical where the discussion is still valuable.

    We do aim to take a light handed approach to moderation which is why you’ll find many threads providing feedback good and bad on lots of companies. We don’t delete them until we deem they move outside the guidelines on ‘disputes or arguments between named individuals or companies’ which can move into the defamation area.

    Trying to judge the fairness or otherwise of complaints in the court of public opinion is not usually possible.

    It’s a balance we work hard to maintain but one we won’t always get right and as always, we’re very open to to hearing more community feedback and comments, as you have rightly given, and continually adjust things as we go.

    Cheers,
    Peter

    Whilst you and I don’t necessarily agree in this particular instance, I understand your actions.

    Thanks

    #1091671
    bridiej
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,097
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    Wondered what had happened to that post, I replied to it then couldn’t find it!

    I didn’t think it was a personal gripe, I read it as a review of what is quite honestly a mediocre service which isn’t worth the money being charged.

    I don’t actually see what the difference was between that particular thread and any one of a number of threads about how poor and expensive etc. etc. etc. Yellow Pages is…. :confused:

    I can understand the policy, after all people’s reputations could be ruined by a single post on a forum such as this and who’s to say someone isn’t making something up purely to ruin a competitor’s reputation?

    BUT surely there’s a way we can let other members know about negative experiences at the hands of the big boys?

    #1091504
    bridiej
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,097
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    Wondered what had happened to that post, I replied to it then couldn’t find it!

    I didn’t think it was a personal gripe, I read it as a review of what is quite honestly a mediocre service which isn’t worth the money being charged.

    I don’t actually see what the difference was between that particular thread and any one of a number of threads about how poor and expensive etc. etc. etc. Yellow Pages is…. :confused:

    I can understand the policy, after all people’s reputations could be ruined by a single post on a forum such as this and who’s to say someone isn’t making something up purely to ruin a competitor’s reputation?

    BUT surely there’s a way we can let other members know about negative experiences at the hands of the big boys?

    #1091674
    Jexley
    Member
    • Total posts: 382
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    I’m sure there are name-and-shame forums out there, this isn’t one of those.

    That’s by design, and truthfully I like it that way, as do many others I would think.

    Just like anywhere else, they’ve stated their policies and T & C’s, it’s up to us to follow those or move on. I’m sure they’re happy for you to challenge them publicly and it sounds like you’re happy to have them respond and not change anything. All part of healthy communication, imo.

    #1091505
    Jexley
    Member
    • Total posts: 382
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    I’m sure there are name-and-shame forums out there, this isn’t one of those.

    That’s by design, and truthfully I like it that way, as do many others I would think.

    Just like anywhere else, they’ve stated their policies and T & C’s, it’s up to us to follow those or move on. I’m sure they’re happy for you to challenge them publicly and it sounds like you’re happy to have them respond and not change anything. All part of healthy communication, imo.

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