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  • #987014
    Blueedge
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    With refunds and returns, does anyone refund a product when they have not had the damaged item back? Do they arrange for return even if the item is small enough to be put in the post?

    Looking at the ACCC website, it clearly states that you have to return the item in order to get a refund, my customer has stated that she has spoken to them and they have told her that we don’t need to get the item back in order to arrange a refund. Surely this can’t be right? How can we access the damage?

    Also, isn’t that a bit unfair that if it’s our job to make sure that a customer gets the item in the first place, surely when they return it to us, if we don’t receive it, that really can’t be our fault too?

    #1160764
    LucasArthur
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    Here is the ACCC page:
    http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/repair-replace-refund

    There does not appear to be a comment re the requirement to return before refund, although there may be something in the finer details.. Personally, from previous experience, items DO NEED TO BE RETURNED otherwise you could be getting ripped off yourself..

    Other than that though, there is also a section in that page above that states:
    “You are responsible for returning the product, unless the cost of doing so is significant. In this case, the business must organise and pay for the return or exchange.You do not have to return products in the original packaging in order to get a refund.”

    Stepping outside of this though, and depending on how you operate, you can refund or replace on the premise that the item is already in transit.. It just depends on how comfortable you are with the client.. I know we have replaced items before receiving goods back with issues shown by email photos.. So i send item (say to QLD from VIC) as soon as issue reported and client is then advised to arrange freight back to us, which i can arrange or they can – whichever is easiest.. For us, it is about keeping the client happy and also they have given us the benefit of the doubt by buying from us in the first instance… There have also been occasions where i have felt uncomfortable replacing first, so i arrange item to be sent here first :) oh that was confusing, i did a flip at the end..

    At the end of the day, do you want a happy customer or a disgruntled one? have you asked why they do not want to send an item back as you wish to investigate the cause of concern so another client does not experience same? Sounds like customer may want to keep the second item, cheeky :rolleyes:

    Let us know how you go, am sure some more ‘qualified’ ACCC candidates will pop along and reply soon..

    Cheers
    Jason

    Jason Ramage | Lucas Arthur Pty Ltd | E: [email protected]   P: 61 3 8324 0344    M: 61 412 244 888
    #1160765
    Blueedge
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    I have checked over the ACCC site and seen exactly that. To be fair to us, we have refunded in the past with customers who we have dealt with for a while, we have no problem with that. It’s just a one off customer demanding a refund based on photographic evidence – which doesn’t even look like the item we sent.

    One think I am thankful for is that after an incident involving a replacement last year (or the year before) when something was returned to us for refund that we hadn’t stocked for a few years, I now take photographs of these particular items. We did refund on that particular return just to keep the peace, if this turns out not to be what we sent, the photographs will back up our claim nicely.

    Re the postage, if we do have a faulty item (which is rare) we usually arrange for a return to us using our eParcel contract. Because this item was so small and wold fit in an envelope, we asked the customer to return it. After nearly two weeks of emails back and forth she did sent it back, but told us it was our responsibility to get it back. I hope it is in our PO Box today – it would be nice to put an end to it. I have no p[problem whatsoever refunding as we can get a refund from our supplier – they obviously need the item back.

    Why would the ACCC say that she doesn’t have to return an item to get a refund? That doesn’t make any sense.

    #1160766
    LucasArthur
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    Blueedge, post: 185512 wrote:
    Why would the ACCC say that she doesn’t have to return an item to get a refund? That doesn’t make any sense.

    I find this highly improbable to be honest with you.. no one would refund without a return of goods… You cant go back to MYERS and say, please refund my new jeans although i am not bringing them back to you :)

    Just think it is something the customer is trying on you, problem is my wife has taught me to give ‘everyone’ the benefit of the doubt – much to my true feelings i must say… Although in this case, and with your gut feelings, i would probably be awaiting a return of the item…

    Re photos, great initiative.. we do same, although what is concerning is that even though photos are produced once you involve them into any conversation with a client having returned goods or purported faults etc you are automatically calling their bluff which is a brave stance, and most clients would then interpret that as you were calling them a liar.. this evokes 2 responses: fight or flight… obviously you are wanting flight so the problem goes away, although in most instances people with fight you and get their back up as the charade has gone on too far to back down from there side and say ‘oh yeah sorry, i was lying and trying to get something for nothing from you’… just saying, so be cautious if you do push this side of your ‘evidence’..

    My comments are not to deter, just an awareness comment :D

    Let us know how you go..

    Jason

    ps.. hope items are in PO box today!

    Jason Ramage | Lucas Arthur Pty Ltd | E: [email protected]   P: 61 3 8324 0344    M: 61 412 244 888
    #1160767
    Blueedge
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    Thanks Jason, I do know perfectly well what you mean about the flight or fight, several years ago, I did get told by a customer that I was calling her a liar, which I most certainly was not. It’s not like this thing happens every day, maybe once or twice every other year, but when it does it leave a really bad taste in your mouth.

    In all the years we’ve been in business, most of the time we’ve managed to sort out problems quickly and easily to a customers satisfaction. Occasionally, you get one that just can’t be made happy unless you give them money to go away – I’d rather give the refund to charity and send her the receipt saying this is what I’ve done. That way, neither of us would lose face and a charity would gain – it could be a charity of her choice too, hows that for fairness?

    My partner has just got back and it wasn’t in our P O Box, now just have to back up, give her the facts and see how it plays out. All for a $50 item which we have no problem refunding, just return it to us. Honestly, that’s all we need, the item returned.

    I also used that exact same analogy to her about trotting into Target and saying wanted a refund for something that wasn’t in my possession – her emails contain veiled threats about getting the Department of Fair Trading and the ACCC involved.

    #1160768
    LucasArthur
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    Yeah, trust me i hear you re the one in a million that can get under your skin.. happens to us as well.. its unfortunate, although a part of business today… some customers are just never satisfied, dont operate like you or i and expect the unrealistic… its how we smile through the problem that helps ;)

    Re charity, if you have an upset customer that is trying to pull one over your eyes i do not believe this would be received well.. as they are obviously quite adamant about taking advantage of you… hope that makes sense??

    Shame about the item… personally, i would kill them with kindness and say “oh just been to the PO, was really hoping that the item arrived today so that i can issue your refund ASAP as i know its important to you.. although its not there today… as soon as it arrives i will advise so”.. not knowing the return arrangement you had if it was trackable etc hard to say much more.. also, you mention you wore the return and they said if it didnt come back it was on you? mmm, personally i would NEVER have arranged the freight return as i would not take ownership of it getting back to me safely – whats to say it has even left them if there is no proof of shipping? if the onus is on them to prove it left them, can be easier..

    Also, re them involving ACCC.. personally i would welcome a call from them, wording such as “thats a great idea, although as i have already complied with the ACCC returns and refunds guidelines of offering you a refund once the item i sent is returned, i would welcome some additional input from them as to how i can further assist you.. my best contact details are… ” its a little egging on that could be perceived as rudeness, unless tackled carefully, although could be beneficial…

    Again, let us know…

    Jason

    ps.. and all over a $50 item – small enough to post back at minimal cost for postage vs cost of item (within ACCC rules for them to return at their cost i think).. dont let it get you off side for too long, its not worth it :)

    Jason Ramage | Lucas Arthur Pty Ltd | E: [email protected]   P: 61 3 8324 0344    M: 61 412 244 888
    #1160769
    Blueedge
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    Interestingly enough, we’ve just realised that she has paid using Paypal, which although it doesn’t affect her rights to refund, it does mean that she could have started a dispute with them and got a refund for it. Although I do believe that they expect things to be returned before they authorise a return.

    #1160770
    LucasArthur
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    Yes, paypal require item to be returned.. whatever you do, do not admit you have it until you are happy to proceed. the moment you tell paypal you have it, case closed in her favour.. Additional problems: paypal, ALWAYS side with buyer.. Regardless.. maybe she was talking to paypal not ACCC? LOL

    Good luck.. paypal = messier yet again!

    Jason Ramage | Lucas Arthur Pty Ltd | E: [email protected]   P: 61 3 8324 0344    M: 61 412 244 888
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