Home Forums Tech talk SEO – I’m Paying $350 month & no results!

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  • #1055345
    bb1
    Participant
    • Total posts: 4,485
    MichaelDigital, post: 228065, member: 52719 wrote:
    I am not blaming them for the rip off merchants – I am just saying if you are in business in this day and age you need to be at least aware of what things do-caveat emptor and all of that – if it is marketing related, this is a core business skill, it is too often under emphasized, without good marketing you may as well not bother.

    In this day and age keeping the plumbing going is an important business skill as well.

    #1055346
    baconsul
    Member
    • Total posts: 1

    One of those industries you wish was regulated. SEO and “SEO” experts sell no more than snake oil. A well built site will need minimal ongoing work. You should hire a writer instead and create unique and contextual articles and content. Google changes the way they work numerous times a week. Time + Best practice HTML and original content!

    #1055347
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    baconsul, post: 228160, member: 76902 wrote:
    One of those industries you wish was regulated. SEO and “SEO” experts sell no more than snake oil. A well built site will need minimal ongoing work. You should hire a writer instead and create unique and contextual articles and content. Google changes the way they work numerous times a week. Time + Best practice HTML and original content!
    Hi Baconsul,
    You must have had some unfortunate SEO experiences.

    Regrettably, I find your explanation of how to attract generic search engine referrals to be so incomplete and imprecise as to offer nothing to this discussion.

    What do you mean by a “well built site”? I can think of nothing in any defininition of “well built” that would essentially impact on search engine rankings.

    If SEO is achieved by writing unique and contextual content, how do you explain the millions of pages that have very poor content but which rank well and attract many referrals? Eg. Think of shopping cart pages, business directory pages and searches where location comes into play in the algorithm.

    As you say, Google makes a couple of changes per day but what has not changed is G’s intention to produce better results. If people base their SEO on this constant fact, it will have a very long life and it won’t be hit by changes that have been implemented to counter SEO link spammers and other spurious tactics.

    There are many, many attributes that impact on cost-effective SEO and there are SEOs and Internet marketers around on FS who know how to use them to their client’s advantage.

    Please don’t tar us with the same brush that should be reserved for the link manipulators and incompetants.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1055348
    Stuart B
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,073

    I like passing by this thread each week and seeing how many extra pages have been added to the thread.

    #1055349
    wisdomoto
    Member
    • Total posts: 2

    Another “SEO company” taking someone for a ride?

    Nahh… can’t be

    “SEO Company” should be a synonym for the phrase “taking someone for a ride”

    #1055350
    Aidan
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,125

    Hi Wisdomoto

    thats a bit like saying all mechanics, realtors and software developers are crooks linked to organised crime! Every industry has shysters, if only I had a dollar for every developer email I get promising great work!

    #1055351
    wisdomoto
    Member
    • Total posts: 2

    Aidan,

    Not all industries are equal unfortunately. The SEO industry has a particularly high percentage of shysters and snake oil sales men. As further evidenced by the original poster.

    Please don’t compare SEO to software or web development where results are much more measurable than SEO. This is a known fact. In my opinion they are almost as measurable as they can be – it either works according to spec or it doesn’t!

    This is very different to the “link building” that goes on in SEO. What is the quality of these links? Where do they come from? What will happen when Mr Google does another update? (Remember Panda update anyone?)

    #1055352
    Aidan
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,125

    I can’t agree, SEO has very measurable results in several deliverables e.g. traffic and conversions as the two most important ones. If for some reason you’re stuck in the past you might still look at keyword rankings too! There is also the easily checked on-site work from structure to content and initial deliverables like keyword research, audits and recommended strategy. All of it is visible and measurable.that is a ‘known fact’ in my world.

    What is the skill level in software development? What about all those examples of dodgy applications, bloated code and system crashing crap?

    That stuff comes from the dodgy end of the software market just as crappy link building comes from the dodgy end of SEO.

    Let us know the numbers you found or at least where we can see the percentages of shysters listed by industry, was it the ABS perhaps?

    #1055353
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642

    Hi Wisdomota,
    Let’s broaden the warnings shall we?

    There certainly are many questionable SEO services, just as there are many questionable web designers, developers, “marketers”, social media consultants, bloggers and web copywriters.

    I suggest many websites are published by enthusiastic, amateur “web designers” who are only 2 pages ahead of their clients on the WordPress “how to” pages.

    If someone offers SEO based on simply writing title tags, completing some SEO plugin and link building, they are a fool to themselves and a danger to others.

    Are designers/developers, marketers, social media consultants, bloggers and copywriters guilty?

    When was the last time you went to any of their sites and found they did NOT claim some SEO benefit of their services?

    I suggest the most frequent SEO delivery problems arise not from the SEO shysters but from the many more web service deliverers who don’t even realise their SEO knowledge limitations.

    As to result measurement, SEO (and SEM) should be far more easily measurable than any other aspect of website design, content or publishing function. One tool is called Analytics. I won’t work on a site that does not have it installed.
    Regs,
    JohnW

    #1055354
    Steve the Bartender
    Member
    • Total posts: 48

    I manage my own website’s SEO & our rankings are always doing well – we even outrank a lot of websites for their own brand ie. “Midori cocktails” or “Midori recipe” :-)

    I have a couple hours spare each week if you need a hand..

    #1055355
    Aidan
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,125

    Not aimed at anyone at all but from the professional side of the industry I’d have to comment that If you’re measuring SEO success purely by ‘keyword rankings’ you are rather missing the point. Nobody wants rankings, they want sales or leads coming in.

    Until you know what sort of visibility on which topics in what places to chase you’re like the web design company paying to get exposure for [web design] – you’ll drown in traffic and costs but get relatively few sales.

    #1055356
    Paul – FS Concierge
    Keymaster
    • Total posts: 3,146

    I know where you are heading Aiden and improved sales and great ROI is where the industry will hopefully get to (for the most part, it is surprisingly absent). In the meantime, if Steve can get high SERPs for obvious terms, it is probably a great result.

    And it is important to realise that high SERPs for some search terms could really be a huge time waster for a lot of companies. EG, if I ranked for cleaner instead of commercial cleaner, I would be spending my days answering the phone for people looking for a house cleaner.

    #1055357
    Aidan
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,125

    Exactly my point Paul, you’ve gotta be visible for the high value terms, not the obvious ones which are often huge time and bandwidth wasters. I had one of my sites ranked highly around Australia for ‘online marketing’ once upon a time and regretted it, waaaay too much time wasted on tyre kickers. That domain is rarely used now other than for tests while I target my local area with another domain. You’ll find a lot of good SEO people deliberately avoid high visibility for similar reasons.

    I’d also argue the obsession with being first has to stop – few have ever bought from a website just because it was first on the page (first ad or first organic), they looked at several websites to see which ones seemed best to them. Our natural behaviour is to comparison shop before deciding which results look best for our purposes.

    #1055358
    SocialStep
    Member
    • Total posts: 39

    I know SEO is a minefield, but I have worked on all sides of it so I’ll just summarise a little.

    SEO is a 1 year + strategy (medium to long term). Short term results aren’t always good and nothing is guaranteed.

    For that kind of money Facebook, Adwords etc might be better for you.

    “SEO” in the original sense of the word isn’t as relevant as relevant content + social media presence.

    When people ask me if we “do SEO” I silently scream inside my head… search engines can read more and more like a person every few months, you would be better off spending the entire $350 on blog posts/articles etc just for your website.

    No offense to the SEO guys :) I know the technical work is VERY important too (I have worked for large agencies) I am only talking about in terms of budget, as a “small” SEO budget can often be a few thousand a month, and obviously not many businesses could take that risk.

    #1055359
    JohnW
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,642
    SocialStep, post: 233355, member: 64623 wrote:
    I know SEO is a minefield, but I have worked on all sides of it so I’ll just summarise a little.

    SEO is a 1 year + strategy (medium to long term). Short term results aren’t always good and nothing is guaranteed.

    For that kind of money Facebook, Adwords etc might be better for you.

    “SEO” in the original sense of the word isn’t as relevant as relevant content + social media presence.

    When people ask me if we “do SEO” I silently scream inside my head… search engines can read more and more like a person every few months, you would be better off spending the entire $350 on blog posts/articles etc just for your website.

    No offense to the SEO guys :) I know the technical work is VERY important too (I have worked for large agencies) I am only talking about in terms of budget, as a “small” SEO budget can often be a few thousand a month, and obviously not many businesses could take that risk.
    This discussion is going off yet again into what appears to be a misinformed idea of the SEO process.

    The SEO process is not and never has been primarily about link building. (That seems to be the inference behind the comment of a “small budget of $thousands per month”.)

    Yes, there were and still are many who try to convince us that it’s all about links.

    WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

    Where do you get the idea that, “SEO is a 1 year + strategy”?

    I usually do a before and after SEO audit for clients one month after implementing SEO activities.

    If you can’t show any results in that time, you have a problem or you don’t know what you are doing.

    Kevin,
    As you claim a level of SEO expertise, would you care to share your LinkedIn profile with everyone else so they can check out your experience in more detail?

    BTW, do you know that links in FS are no-follow?
    Regs,
    JohnW

Viewing 15 posts - 136 through 150 (of 159 total)
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