Home – New Forums Tech talk SEO – I’m Paying $350 month & no results!

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  • #1055268
    PK SEO Services
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    Jexley, post: 70847 wrote:
    @DRS – While you might sound a touch jaded, for the most part you’re right about most of the facts of this.

    AdWords is good to get some targeted traffic in and to get some insight into real-time market behavior, but the real goods is to get your site optimised for your terms so that it can bring in organic traffic in the long run.

    And @JaneB, this is kid #4. I started my business with kid #3 on my lap, typing one-handed while I held a bottle in the other. I’m pretty sure I’m all set. Heh.

    Yes I agree with you there. Adwords is good for fetching market analytics
    on how people are finding you. I suppose you could say having stopped Adwords and the RIDICULOUS spending woke me up to SEO. I don’t need adwords anymore. My sites run well without it. I also use other forms of free advertising which points back to my sites.

    I know it sounds silly, but these days Adwords would have to pay me to use their services. When you venture outside this nasty circle of pay per click and you start to see all the different and free advertisng mediums that can help with your SEO and organics, I can almost guarantee you, you will never look back at PPC again. Except for maybe the beginning stages of a new site so that you can utilise the analytics.

    These days I write a new web page and I have it live on Google SERPS in about 15 minutes. Not six months as it use to be when I needed Adwords to get it visible in minutes. I only just built a new web page today and linked it to the rest of my site . After publishing, it was live in about half an hour and appeared three times on page 1 of Google out of 7.250.000.00 pages . I must be upsetting major transport companies. LOOOOOL !!

    In the old days, when I knew nothing about SEO and publishing tactics, I required Adwords. Not anymore. This is what you can learn when you start to delve deep into what is SEO, publishing, and Google SEO off page. With various keywords my sites have appeared up to 7 times on page 1. Basically the whole of page 1 of Google is mine.

    If you want to have a real laugh so you can see how easy it does get, if you haven’t already guessed. I do delivery work as a living for myself which comes from my site and also do detailing. I pretty much have the worlds largest detailing site.

    If your saying I’m in the wrong business, you may be right, but I can’t sit behind computers for a living I’ll go ” MAAAAAAD ” If I can do it, anyone can do it.

    #1055269
    Aidan
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    @DRS – If you have ‘studied’ AdWords for 5 years then you should not be losing money the way you say you can do.

    There are literally millions of businesses worldwide, doing very nicely on nothing but AdWords! You can’t seriously think that your experience applies to everyone? Why would so many users be on AdWords year after year?

    If you are doing it right, you would not care much about the per click cost because some visits really are worth $25+ each! It all depends on what a customer is worth to your business and your ability to turn the visitors into customers.

    Seriously some merchants thrive on paying enormous amounts for their traffic while others fail on the very same traffic…

    You see, some are more competitive than others, some have great confidence inducing brand power, some have the ability to turn one-off customers into lifetime ones, some just have more appealing content on their sites that actually inspires the visitor to become a customer to begin with…

    speaking of which…

    I applaud your attitude to content – absolutely, give them what they want…

    … but I would say you can’t rely on that free traffic always being around from Google.

    I’ve said many times here that if I were Google I would charge for every spot on the first page, (“its my index, I put a lot of time and investment into it, so why shouldn’t I!”)

    I’m not entirely sure I understand the last part of your post re SEO tactics, some sites will need backlinks for some keywords, others may not, that depends on a range of factors, either way there is no point having those tyre kickers on your site if you have to pay for them so just do paid advertising for the right search terms, not the tyre kicker ones!

    Yes AdWords is a form of advertising, there is no argument on that? not entirely sure how you might be miffed at Google giving you plenty of free exposure to your market and giving you the opportunity to do more if you want to buy adWords on top? What on earth is wrong with that?

    #1055270
    PK SEO Services
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    Aidan, post: 70908 wrote:
    @DRS – If you have ‘studied’ AdWords for 5 years then you should not be losing money the way you say you can do.

    There are literally millions of businesses worldwide, doing very nicely on nothing but AdWords! You can’t seriously think that your experience applies to everyone? Why would so many users be on AdWords year after year?

    If you are doing it right, you would not care much about the per click cost because some visits really are worth $25+ each! It all depends on what a customer is worth to your business and your ability to turn the visitors into customers.

    Seriously some merchants thrive on paying enormous amounts for their traffic while others fail on the very same traffic…

    You see, some are more competitive than others, some have great confidence inducing brand power, some have the ability to turn one-off customers into lifetime ones, some just have more appealing content on their sites that actually inspires the visitor to become a customer to begin with…

    speaking of which…

    I applaud your attitude to content – absolutely, give them what they want…

    … but I would say you can’t rely on that free traffic always being around from Google.

    I’ve said many times here that if I were Google I would charge for every spot on the first page, (“its my index, I put a lot of time and investment into it, so why shouldn’t I!”)

    I’m not entirely sure I understand the last part of your post re SEO tactics, some sites will need backlinks for some keywords, others may not, that depends on a range of factors, either way there is no point having those tyre kickers on your site if you have to pay for them so just do paid advertising for the right search terms, not the tyre kicker ones!

    Yes AdWords is a form of advertising, there is no argument on that? not entirely sure how you might be miffed at Google giving you plenty of free exposure to your market and giving you the opportunity to do more if you want to buy adWords on top? What on earth is wrong with that?

    Hey Aiden

    My apologies if it sounds like what works for me will work for everyone else
    That is clearly not the case. Each industry works differently as to how or what sales you are going to get with Adwords and if you get any at all.

    Websites play a critical roll. In my industry it didn’t prove to well at all, even with specifically targeted keywords in my ad Groups and were talking even one or two only specific keywords per adgroup for each ad. Not ten or twenty keywords per ad group for each ad as what most Adwords resellers do. This was why I was able to many times land in position 1 or two for 40 plus cents a click. Sometimes even less for my chosen keyword depending on the competition

    Many people are under the misguided assumption that if you are position one or two that you are going to get a lot of business. Again not the case. This is why I always say, I would rather be on page 1 organics and get inquiries than to have to pay on Adwords ridiculous amounts at the end of the month in the hope that the marketing company I may be using is going to do their jobs right in the first place, and get me that business.

    Why would you want to pay to advertise on Adwords and pin the very hope of your business on Adwords when you can learn SEO and almost master page 1 on the niche you may be involved in. My strategies of advertising my websites are spread through so many different advertising mediums. All because I pushed myself to learn SEO. ” Adwords ” That’s a drop in the bucket these days.

    I even have a couple of associates who have been using Adwords themselves and have given it away because it has not worked for them. One of these associates of mine who is in the motor trade was spending up to 3000.00 dollars with some firm per month for advertising. It may work for some, but not from what I’ve been hearing.

    Sure he got some work from it, but not enough to justify that sort of spending. That’s not advertising, that’s what I call going mad beyond common sense. The reason I stopped using Adwords is because it’s basically an auction, your not necessarily going to get business from it, too much click fraud from competitors, and most web companies or resellers do not optimise the ads as what they should. This is why I’ve told this forum member, better off if she starts learning SEO.

    Personally speaking, I would like to see Adwords come down in a crashing fireball. It’s one of Googles unnecessary evils in my opinion.

    I do not see the necessity for it. As for the last part of the post, Google places heavy emphasis on what you link with and what keywords you choose to link with. It’s just something Google looks for.

    #1055271
    AdServe
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    One of my projects is aub2b.com I bought an Alibaba clone script about 6 years ago and just installed it on that domain thinking I would do something with it someday.

    It has always had around two thousand unique visitors per month and just tonight I decided to have a look in webmaster tools. The sites main keywords according to google are, Products, Home and other non related terms. It ranks number 3 for the keyword “B2B” in worldwide searches from google au, doesent rank at all in Pages from Australia(not considered an Aus site), has a Page Rank of 0 and only 3 or 4 backlinks from chinese forums. I have just put metta tags in it now and added the word B2B to the categories. what google likes I think is the stickiness of the site, avg time spent on there is 8min.

    So I guess no SEO is the best SEO.

    #1055272
    PK SEO Services
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    AdServe, post: 70912 wrote:
    One of my projects is aub2b.com I bought an Alibaba clone script about 6 years ago and just installed it on that domain thinking I would do something with it someday.

    It has always had around two thousand unique visitors per month and just tonight I decided to have a look in webmaster tools. The sites main keywords according to google are, Products, Home and other non related terms. It ranks number 3 for the keyword “B2B” in worldwide searches from google au, doesent rank at all in Pages from Australia(not considered an Aus site), has a Page Rank of 0 and only 3 or 4 backlinks from chinese forums. I have just put metta tags in it now and added the word B2B to the categories. what google likes I think is the stickiness of the site, avg time spent on there is 8min.

    So I guess no SEO is the best SEO.

    Yes it’s funny how Google works. My delivery site has absolutely no page rank no, and very little links, but it’s killing my competitors

    #1055273
    Aidan
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    “…Personally speaking, I would like to see Adwords come down in a crashing fireball. It’s one of Googles unnecessary evils in my opinion.

    I do not see the necessity for it. …”

    @ DRS – LOL – How do you propose they pay for the billions in running costs?
    Surely you don’t think Google actually owes us all a free listing for our choice of keywords? They should find some funding somewhere else?

    As for the other points in your post, it is really important to note that doing AdWords badly will cost you heaps. Not every business is suited to AdWords but for those that are, doing it well can make heaps! It looks like you and your associates didn’t get it right!

    As for doing your own SEO, yes absolutely, everyone should try this but they should also understand that depending on what search terms they are trying to get ranked for (assuming they know how to select the right ones) – it may not be an easy journey.

    There are over 200 factors in the algorithm, depending on what you are trying to get ranked for you may need to get just a few of them right or an awful lot of them right :)

    #1055274
    19606#deleted
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    The problem here is that they’ve optimised her page for a phrase that only gets 58 local searches per month – so she’s not getting extra traffic either – check out her metrics and her onpage – they’re really poor.

    #1055275
    JohnW
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    AdServe, post: 70912 wrote:
    It has always had around two thousand unique visitors per month and just tonight I decided to have a look in webmaster tools. The sites main keywords according to google are, Products, Home and other non related terms. It ranks number 3 for the keyword “B2B” in worldwide searches from google au, doesent rank at all in Pages from Australia(not considered an Aus site), has a Page Rank of 0 and only 3 or 4 backlinks from chinese forums. I have just put metta tags in it now and added the word B2B to the categories. what google likes I think is the stickiness of the site, avg time spent on there is 8min.

    So I guess no SEO is the best SEO.
    Hi Adserv,
    Let’s not be misleading the folk here. For their sakes, forgive me for offering what I believe to be corrections to some of the comments in your post.

    Corrections:
    1. Google “sees” around 2,500 pages of your site as Australian.

    You only need to do a “site search” to see this. (Go to Google Au, select Aust pages and enter the search string site:aub2b.com.) Have you done anything to change where Google sees your pages recently?

    2. You rank in the top 10 in Google for the single search word “b2b” essentially because it occurs in your domain name.

    It is such an infrequently used search phrase that few other websites target it and you therefore don’t need many points to rank highly to it.

    Unfortunately for your site, very few searchers will use it by itself as they know that single word search phrases rarely deliver useful results and over 50% of searches are made with 3 word or longer search phrases.

    3. “Home” and “products” are your most important keywords.

    Webmaster’s Tools are diagnostic tools. These words occur on every page of your site in your navigation. This is Google telling you that your site has major SEO problems because it can’t find any more important words on which to increase your site’s ranking.

    The lack of SEO on this site means it is accidentally competing with the 13 billion web pages that contain the word “home” and the 3 billion that contain “products”.

    4. If you are talking about the keyword meta tag, you are wasting your time inserting it as Google does not read it – nor does Bing.

    5. There is no evidence I have seen that a site’s ranking is influenced by its “stickiness” or length of time spent on site. (How could Google measure this parameter?)

    6. Ranking in the top 10 for a worldwide pages search for one word (b2b) that is used in a site’s domain name is not an example of whether SEO techniques work or not.

    SEO is about attracting SE referrals with the widest range of relevant search phrases.

    When I try a few other search phrases, your site disappears from the results.

    Examples:
    In a Google Aust worldwide search for these phrases it disappears:

    b2b trade leads
    b2b trade marketplace
    b2b trade leads marketplace
    Australia’s b2b trade leads marketplace
    “Australia’s b2b trade leads marketplace”

    These search phrases are made up from your Home page’s title.

    You may want to ponder about why Google cannot find a single page that matches your Home page’s exact title search.

    Your site’s traffic is tiny compared to the market it is in.

    No SEO is NOT the best practice.

    Regs,

    JohnW

    #1055276
    Netboost SEO
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    Adwords is an amazing tool – what else can vring you so much targeted traffic in so little time for so little cost. Really if you are scared about your budget just set a cpc limit like I do and use prepaid ad credit – simple as that. The real skill in adwords is the same as in offline advertsing – copywriting.

    People think that anyone can write a killer adwords ad but this is not true. A poorly written ad will chew up your budget with what aiden correctly refers to as tyre kickers. The trick is to only bring in the type of visitor that is likely to buy – to do this I use disqualifiers in the ad copy to make the tyre kickers go away.

    And to those braggin about being on page 1 with no SEO – you really need to educate yourself about keyword research and start analyzing your traffic to see the trends – I could rank flyingsolo.com.au for “silly pink unicorn” but it wouldn’t accomplish much.

    You need to know not only the traffic volume for each keyword but you need to track the activity of people that come to your site via certain keywords. I think you can use adword code to help to some degree with this.

    You may actually be amazed that at how useless a keyword like ‘b2b’ actually is to your site. Focus on long tails and let the noobs fight over the broad shorttails while you take their market share.

    On a side note I actually saw research the other day stating that people are trending towards using natural language questions to search. So you may want to start drawing up FAQ lists and optimize for the top 20 questions…. just a thought.

    #1055277
    Tergeste
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    This is interesting but the bottom line is this.

    If the web site does not have good title tags, on each page, good meta data tags, relevent keywords, backlinks, descriptive tags on images , text written with with keywords in mind, keywords linking back to YouTube or Adwords, and on and on…then it will never work.
    Google wants quality and information on the web site it is indexing, if you throw up rubbish on the site you will NOT GET ranked. These days the average do it yourself web site will alway stay a do it yourself web site and will get ranked accordingly. Purely and simply because your business is to know your business NOT web sites management and SEO.

    I have undertaken courses, read books, listened to 100’s of podcasts the answer is always the same. The so called experts that charge $4000 for a course only know how to sell the course and nothing else.
    There are some who are truly experts and I know who they are and they are worth the $5000 a day they charge. At the end of the day if the manager of the site does not implement all the suggestions made to them then….well whose problem is it.?

    #1055278
    PK SEO Services
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    Aidan, post: 70937 wrote:
    “…Personally speaking, I would like to see Adwords come down in a crashing fireball. It’s one of Googles unnecessary evils in my opinion.

    I do not see the necessity for it. …”

    @ DRS – LOL – How do you propose they pay for the billions in running costs?
    Surely you don’t think Google actually owes us all a free listing for our choice of keywords? They should find some funding somewhere else?

    As for the other points in your post, it is really important to note that doing AdWords badly will cost you heaps. Not every business is suited to AdWords but for those that are, doing it well can make heaps! It looks like you and your associates didn’t get it right!

    As for doing your own SEO, yes absolutely, everyone should try this but they should also understand that depending on what search terms they are trying to get ranked for (assuming they know how to select the right ones) – it may not be an easy journey.

    There are over 200 factors in the algorithm, depending on what you are trying to get ranked for you may need to get just a few of them right or an awful lot of them right :)

    Geez Aiden How much more right do you need to get it for a few cents a click in the first three positions for specific targeted keywords in the car detailing industry ?? LOL Ye Ye I know, Google has to make it’s money from somewhere. If it’s not going to be Adwords, where the hell is it going to come from ? That I can’t answer for you. Yes they do need to make money from somewhere…………..Just wish it wasn’t Adwords

    One VERY valid point I applaud you on. ” Not every business is suited to Adwords ” BRAVO, well said !! This is the part Google doesn’t tell businesses looking to advertise on Adwords.

    If you look at an ad in Adwords Ad and one in organics, they both really require somewhat the same principles for optimisation. An Adwords ad is just a smaller ad to that of an organic ad. Meta tags are basically your keywords for your organics ad. Ad group keywords are for your Adwords Ad. Optimised correctly, and you should see inquiries.

    I get inquiries from organics and get the work. Adwords targeted for the same keywords only helped by cleaning my bank balance with the same targeted keywords. There is also a stigma with Adwords.

    People see Adwords ads and what they see is sales pages, causing the tyre kicking effect. I have also heard this from people as well. I’m not making this up. As a user as well, when I’m looking for something, I never click on the Adwords ads because of that stigma. Even I’m a user, and I will behave like one.

    Advertisers are blinded by the fact if you are in position one with Adwords even with specific keywords and also targeted, and even as exact keywords in your ad group, that you are going to get flooded with business.

    Get flooded with Adwords holes in your credit card is what’s going to happen if you do it wrong, and most advertisers do in the rush to the gold in position 1. LOL I only wish it does work for some, and I have always said one thing…..Never put your eggs in one basket !! Thank God I didn’t.

    Pete. :D

    #1055279
    JohnW
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    DRS, post: 71012 wrote:
    Geez Aiden How much more right do you need to getHi DRS,
    If you want to go head-to-head with Aidan you better be extremely experienced and professional in both SEO and Adwords.

    There are no absolutes on the web and therein probably lies the debate between the two of you.

    I don’t offer Adword management services but that does not mean I don’t value them as an online marketing tool.

    Your business enquiries could well be doubled or tripled by improving either/or your site’s use of Adwords or natural SE referrals.

    In spite of your claims to be the envy of your competitors, your site is not really set up to maximise referrals from natural search results. I estimate that it would not be too hard to at least treble its SE referrals of relevant visitors using this marketing technique.

    If you read market research surveys you will find that natural search ranking results and Adwords are complementary.

    Regs,

    JohnW

    #1055280
    Aidan
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    Its all good Pete, you are of course perfectly entitled to your opinions, if it didn’t work for you in the way you set everything up thats no skin off mine and I do respect some of the points you made too.

    I just get a bit ‘debate-y’ when I see people make sweeping statements like “SEO is nonesense” or “AdWords is a con” because there are sooo many people doing them right and reaping the rewards.

    btw – John’s comment just now is definitely worth thinking about – you could do much more with your search and conversion optimisation if you wanted to.

    I’ve enjoyed the chat :)

    #1055281
    PK SEO Services
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    Aidan, post: 71020 wrote:
    Its all good Pete, you are of course perfectly entitled to your opinions, if it didn’t work for you in the way you set everything up thats no skin off mine and I do respect some of the points you made too.

    I just get a bit ‘debate-y’ when I see people make sweeping statements like “SEO is nonesense” or “AdWords is a con” because there are sooo many people doing them right and reaping the rewards.

    btw – John’s comment just now is definitely worth thinking about – you could do much more with your search and conversion optimisation if you wanted to.

    I’ve enjoyed the chat :)

    Nothing wrong with a good debate Aiden. We’re all friends here mate, that’s what forums are about. In regards to what you’re saying John, I know my sites aren’t 100% perfect. However this really isn’t what I do for a living.

    The point that I’m meerely trying to get across is, people can save themselves a lot of money by doing something themselves if they put in the effort to learn. What I have acheived so far has taken some time to learn, but I now have it for life.

    I would no way have been able to afford to have anyone build me what I have today on Google, let alone be found for how many different keyword terms on page 1. If I put in the effort to build more relevant inbound links, again I would gain so much more. I just couldn’t be bothered. What I currently have is serving me Ok.

    The reason I decided to do all this myself is because I had a web building company call me to build me a website before I gad one, and they said to me ” we can build you a four page website for 550.00 dollars and put you on Google ” So I got excited and said ” GREAT “
    ” I want to load up quite a few images ” Their response was ” oh you get 8 standard images. After that it’s 30.00 dollars an image ” That’s when I said ” get lost ” John, have you seen how may images are on my detailing site. There are that many images it’s probably hurting my rankings because of load up time. Yes I know I could probably do a bit more to optimise my sites, but they are good enough for what they are right now. I have competition detailers who are paying big bucks to advertise their businesses and they are no where near me.

    In many cases with what I see from SEO companies, they don’t really optimise sites as well as they should or can to help people who pay a considerable amount of money for rankings.

    For example, why should someone like me come along and out rank say for instance a site like TNT for two or three main keywords, when these guys are paying someone a lot of money to be on top, even with Adwords. It doesn’t sound like good customer service or commitment to me.

    When I see an SEO company setting up someone’s business with a URL like http://www.joeblowsplumbing.com instead of something like http://www.plumbingservicessydney.com or something to that effect, that doesn’t say much about that SEO company’s efforts in what they do.

    It’s been an interesting chat Aiden. Good verbal bashing
    Thanks Fellas

    Pete

    #1055282
    seocourse
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    DRS, post: 70927 wrote:
    Yes it’s funny how Google works. My delivery site has absolutely no page rank no, and very little links, but it’s killing my competitors

    Killing your competition, you mind telling us how?
    for what keywords?
    You mean this site?
    http://www.samedayfreightservices.com/

    for what keywords is this?
    “express freight Sydney”

    Zero bad blood… just curious

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