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  • #977638
    Debbie22
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    Hi All,

    The one business that I work recently reduced by hours by 40%. This is not good especially as it is my main client. The reasons are that he is currently not earning that much money this year (true). I know that his overall situation is good though.

    Recently I have worked in excess of what we said my normal working hours would be, this was simply due to the fact there was work that was required to be done within a specific timeframe. At the time that this was taking place, I did not discusss my additional hours as I knew he was stress enough.

    The question now is, should I charge him for these extra hours, or should I simply let it go. I cannot afford to loose this job, however the extra income would be good. Also I have not charged him for every hour that I worked overtime, there were numerous occassions when he called me and required work to be done for which he was not charged.

    Should all of the above be communicated and is so how can I do it short and sweet, or should I simply let it go knowing that I was simply helping him, and be grateful I still have his engagement. Without him – no money !!!

    Thanks

    #1099453
    Sandy Naidu
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    Hi Debbie – You should not charge – Especially considering you have worked for long hours (over time)…

    #1099537
    Sandy Naidu
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    • Total posts: 116
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    Hi Debbie – You should not charge – Especially considering you have worked for long hours (over time)…

    #1099538
    Debbie22
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    Sandy Naidu, post: 112210 wrote:
    Hi Debbie – You should not charge – Especially considering you have worked for long hours (over time)…

    Hi Sandy :-)

    Thanks for the reply, but I am a bit confused as you are saying I should NOT charge, but then go on to say especially becuase of working long hours.

    I am so scared if I do charge, he will point out to me that he never asked me to do it, or I am slow. He knows deep down we had to do it, but he is a smart business man and to be blunt knows that I am desperate to keep this work as it is all that i have.

    If I do charge, how I can I put it in very short and simply terms that I am not charging for all the extra hours, but only those that I feel are reasonable to charge for?

    He called me numerous times at 6:30 at night (burnt my dinner once) and for me I am not charging for that, he also continues to call me or send me emails that require urgent attention after my core hours – again, I am not a clock watcher in terms of charging him so want him to know what.

    Honestly, he should recognise what I did and it should come from him, but that aint going to happen especially given his cash flow problems, and I am so scared I will loose the job as he will say I am too expensive!!

    I am in conflict with myself as you can see – sometimes I think a short term loss is worth a long term gain (i.e. to keep my hours) and other times I think he is taking advantage :-(

    Thanks all for helping me with my thoughts!

    #1099454
    Debbie22
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    Sandy Naidu, post: 112210 wrote:
    Hi Debbie – You should not charge – Especially considering you have worked for long hours (over time)…

    Hi Sandy :-)

    Thanks for the reply, but I am a bit confused as you are saying I should NOT charge, but then go on to say especially becuase of working long hours.

    I am so scared if I do charge, he will point out to me that he never asked me to do it, or I am slow. He knows deep down we had to do it, but he is a smart business man and to be blunt knows that I am desperate to keep this work as it is all that i have.

    If I do charge, how I can I put it in very short and simply terms that I am not charging for all the extra hours, but only those that I feel are reasonable to charge for?

    He called me numerous times at 6:30 at night (burnt my dinner once) and for me I am not charging for that, he also continues to call me or send me emails that require urgent attention after my core hours – again, I am not a clock watcher in terms of charging him so want him to know what.

    Honestly, he should recognise what I did and it should come from him, but that aint going to happen especially given his cash flow problems, and I am so scared I will loose the job as he will say I am too expensive!!

    I am in conflict with myself as you can see – sometimes I think a short term loss is worth a long term gain (i.e. to keep my hours) and other times I think he is taking advantage :-(

    Thanks all for helping me with my thoughts!

    #1099540
    MatthewKeath
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    If he had no idea you were doing extra hours then I can’t see how you can suddenly charge. ESPECIALLY as you have only decided to charge him now your hours have been cut.

    When you decided you needed to work extra hours to get the work done, you should have contacted him and checked if it was ok.

    As you didn’t do this then I imagine he would not be very happy to suddenly get a bill he had no idea he had was coming. By not very happy I mean, a) He will not pay it and b) Your relationship between you and him suddenly get very frosty.

    Next time you need additional hours, let him know and give him a chance to approve them.

    Debbie22, post: 112215 wrote:
    He called me numerous times at 6:30 at night (burnt my dinner once) and for me I am not charging for that, he also continues to call me or send me emails that require urgent attention after my core hours – again, I am not a clock watcher in terms of charging him so want him to know what.If this is a problem then you need to discuss this with him. If he values you as an employee then you two will work something out. It sounds like you are trying to justify charging him to yourself.
    #1099455
    MatthewKeath
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    If he had no idea you were doing extra hours then I can’t see how you can suddenly charge. ESPECIALLY as you have only decided to charge him now your hours have been cut.

    When you decided you needed to work extra hours to get the work done, you should have contacted him and checked if it was ok.

    As you didn’t do this then I imagine he would not be very happy to suddenly get a bill he had no idea he had was coming. By not very happy I mean, a) He will not pay it and b) Your relationship between you and him suddenly get very frosty.

    Next time you need additional hours, let him know and give him a chance to approve them.

    Debbie22, post: 112215 wrote:
    He called me numerous times at 6:30 at night (burnt my dinner once) and for me I am not charging for that, he also continues to call me or send me emails that require urgent attention after my core hours – again, I am not a clock watcher in terms of charging him so want him to know what.If this is a problem then you need to discuss this with him. If he values you as an employee then you two will work something out. It sounds like you are trying to justify charging him to yourself.
    #1099456
    SuzsSpace
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    It also sounds like he’s taking advantage of you. I’d be telling him you’ve given him a lot of freebie hours and possibly even telling him how many hours it was, advising him of the times you’ve burnt dinner due to his phone calls and then giving him the charge for these extra hours in the future. I agree you can’t charge him retrospectively but you can let him know it can’t go on.

    #1099543
    SuzsSpace
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    It also sounds like he’s taking advantage of you. I’d be telling him you’ve given him a lot of freebie hours and possibly even telling him how many hours it was, advising him of the times you’ve burnt dinner due to his phone calls and then giving him the charge for these extra hours in the future. I agree you can’t charge him retrospectively but you can let him know it can’t go on.

    #1099457
    JacquiPryor
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    I agree, have communication that ensures he knows how much extra you have put in in the past, but in light of current circumstances you, unfortunately, will no longer be in a position to work additional time without charging and won’t be able to work outside of normal busines hours. Let him know the charges for additional hours in the future, and come to an agreement on how he wishes to be notified and billed for them.

    #1099545
    JacquiPryor
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    I agree, have communication that ensures he knows how much extra you have put in in the past, but in light of current circumstances you, unfortunately, will no longer be in a position to work additional time without charging and won’t be able to work outside of normal busines hours. Let him know the charges for additional hours in the future, and come to an agreement on how he wishes to be notified and billed for them.

    #1099458
    Debbie22
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    Thanks All,

    The only reason why I am trying to justify it to myself is that when I was working a lot more hours for him, I always gave him additional hours that I did not charge for as that is simply my work ethic or stupidity.

    When he redduced my hours so extensively, I said to him at the time that I would not be able to work any additional hours without charging him, and he said that would be ok and likewise if I worked less hours than required, I could only charge him for those hours (Previously it was always a set number of hours each week – and those hours were always in excess of the set hours – mainly my doing because I am a workacholic, and also simple company culture)

    It is probably not in my best interest to go back retrospectively (although it would take an idiot not to know I put them in, especially given his after hours calls), however I also feel he is very self absorped if he does not recognise it in some way. It does not take much to recognise that being called at 6:30 is an afterhours call.

    However, if you think it is wiser to simply let it go, is there any way you can help me communicate that I did the extra hours based on the prediciment we were going through but not charging. Want to make it simple, or should simply be forgotten about with me knowing what to do moving forward, and also bearing in mind that he is self absorbed not to acknowledge what i have done.

    Sorry for going backwards and forwards, I so badly need the money, did the work, and don’t want to be taken advantage of, but this may come to bite me.

    Thanks all :-)

    #1099547
    Debbie22
    Member
    • Total posts: 52
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    Thanks All,

    The only reason why I am trying to justify it to myself is that when I was working a lot more hours for him, I always gave him additional hours that I did not charge for as that is simply my work ethic or stupidity.

    When he redduced my hours so extensively, I said to him at the time that I would not be able to work any additional hours without charging him, and he said that would be ok and likewise if I worked less hours than required, I could only charge him for those hours (Previously it was always a set number of hours each week – and those hours were always in excess of the set hours – mainly my doing because I am a workacholic, and also simple company culture)

    It is probably not in my best interest to go back retrospectively (although it would take an idiot not to know I put them in, especially given his after hours calls), however I also feel he is very self absorped if he does not recognise it in some way. It does not take much to recognise that being called at 6:30 is an afterhours call.

    However, if you think it is wiser to simply let it go, is there any way you can help me communicate that I did the extra hours based on the prediciment we were going through but not charging. Want to make it simple, or should simply be forgotten about with me knowing what to do moving forward, and also bearing in mind that he is self absorbed not to acknowledge what i have done.

    Sorry for going backwards and forwards, I so badly need the money, did the work, and don’t want to be taken advantage of, but this may come to bite me.

    Thanks all :-)

    #1099459
    JacquiPryor
    Member
    • Total posts: 2,344
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    …I said to him at the time that I would not be able to work any additional hours without charging him, and he said that would be ok

    Was the above a verbal discussion? If so, then perhaps you could send an email or letter so there’s written record of the discussion – this could also reiterate the work previously done without charging? I really don’t think it’s wise to ‘push’ for payment of additional hours now, as there has been no agreement about them – he likely won’t pay, and it may even see the contract cut all together? Whilst you may need the money from the longer hours… surely some work is better than none? If I was in your position, I would send an email along the lines of the below, as this gives him the opportunity to disagree if something is not suitable to him, but also provides you with some documented understanding of the (now) agreement.

    Dear XXX

    This email is simply to confirm our discussions of . As you are aware, in the past we agreed that I would provide hours services to your company each week. As you are also aware, I would often go over and above this arrangement, working on average hours extra each week and working outside of standard business hours.

    I acknowledge your advice that these hours must reduce to per week. I confirm that in the event less time is spent in the course of the week, I will charge accordingly.

    As we discussed the reduction of hours means that I will no longer be in a position to work additional hours at no charge, nor will I be available to work outside of standard business hours without charging. I advise that any service provision over hours in the week will be invoiced at a rate of <$> per hour. As per our telephone discussion, I understand this is acceptable to you. I propose contacting you by email when I see the work load extending past the agreed number of hours to seek your written confirmation to continue at this rate.

    Hope it helps :) Good luck.

    #1099549
    JacquiPryor
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    • Total posts: 2,344
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    …I said to him at the time that I would not be able to work any additional hours without charging him, and he said that would be ok

    Was the above a verbal discussion? If so, then perhaps you could send an email or letter so there’s written record of the discussion – this could also reiterate the work previously done without charging? I really don’t think it’s wise to ‘push’ for payment of additional hours now, as there has been no agreement about them – he likely won’t pay, and it may even see the contract cut all together? Whilst you may need the money from the longer hours… surely some work is better than none? If I was in your position, I would send an email along the lines of the below, as this gives him the opportunity to disagree if something is not suitable to him, but also provides you with some documented understanding of the (now) agreement.

    Dear XXX

    This email is simply to confirm our discussions of . As you are aware, in the past we agreed that I would provide hours services to your company each week. As you are also aware, I would often go over and above this arrangement, working on average hours extra each week and working outside of standard business hours.

    I acknowledge your advice that these hours must reduce to per week. I confirm that in the event less time is spent in the course of the week, I will charge accordingly.

    As we discussed the reduction of hours means that I will no longer be in a position to work additional hours at no charge, nor will I be available to work outside of standard business hours without charging. I advise that any service provision over hours in the week will be invoiced at a rate of <$> per hour. As per our telephone discussion, I understand this is acceptable to you. I propose contacting you by email when I see the work load extending past the agreed number of hours to seek your written confirmation to continue at this rate.

    Hope it helps :) Good luck.

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