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December 29, 2010 at 12:58 pm #971299Up::0
Hi
I have had a new business for 7 mths and I am now up to accountant number 3 and considering finding No4, everybody keeps telling me to get a good accountant, but how do you find one ?I believe I need one that talks to me, plans with me, forecast changes needed- all I have had to date is after the fact “should have done” advise – In some ways I am flying blind, any advise?
DibsDecember 29, 2010 at 10:06 pm #1048954Up::0I’ve had the same accountant for twenty years, we got acquainted because he had the only office in the main street of Daylesford, and it works just fine. My question is, have you learned something from your experience? If you need financial planning, make sure that you specify that. Do you need a bookkeeper? Bookkeepers can be cheaper and provide on the ground advice for your business. Ask local businesses who they use, sounds like you need the personal touch.
December 29, 2010 at 11:35 pm #1048955Up::0Dibs, I do sympathise with you. Yes I agree you should learn all you can and ask LOTS of questions, but sometimes it just does not seem to work. A friend said to me once, you – have – to – talk – very – slowly – to – an – accountant (my apologies to all F S member accountants).
Well, I am also on the lookout for a new one and not because of the kind of situation Mike mentions. My present one I have been using for about 12 years, but finally I have had enough. Too many mistakes and too many times not following my instructions/requests and too many times the same sort of mistakes/lack of following instructions etc. etc. and I have had enough.
My needs are not great, just a bit of decent service and good communication. Anybody on the south side of Sydney like to put their hand up???
December 30, 2010 at 12:48 am #1048956Up::0I think it is rare but not unusual , although many accountants claim to be business advisors most make their money from compliance services and accordingly tend to have a ” should of ” approach. complince is easy money for many
I would recommend you approach enaging your new accountant as if you are enaging a new staff member and meet with a few and discuss your needs over a cup of coffee.
If they are not willing to give you 20 minutes and discuss their approach and your needs , they dont really want you or need your business, but will take it anyway . A relationship works both ways and they need to want your business and feel comfortable with you . Many just fake it
in fairness you need to be explicit with your needs and expectations including fees and services
I would avoid any accounting firm associated with the ” nixon advantage” they tend to have a philosphy of increasing fees and packaging services until the client hurts
additionally you want to deal with someone else in business, not a staff member, you need to know they have been where you are
good luck , and yes I am a Chartered Accountant and have been in business for 16 years so I have gained and lost plenty of clients in that period and think i understand a bit about our industry
But I would still love to hear more about how and why small business select or sack accountants
Craig
December 30, 2010 at 1:17 am #1048957Up::0Hello Dibs
In another thread titled “2011 is going to be interesting I wrote that….
“there are two types of business metrics.
Those that tell you what has happened and
Those that tell you what will happen… predictive metrics
Many businesses are overwhelmed by the past… needing to finalise financial reports and pay taxes… or complete the myriad of compliance obligations that the government is choking us with”
So in fairness to accountants, they are drowning in easy to get compliance work and they don’t have the time to think about predictive metrics… nor are they usually trained to think about predictive metrics… unless it’s something as financially blatant as… if you keep making a loss you are going to go broke.
All of the accounting bodies keep stressing to their members to offer more value add services but I have felt for many years that it is not possible to build a true business improvement division from within an accounting practice… the culture is just too different
I suggest you leave the compliance work with your accountant and find a more rounded business advisor who has had real world experience
December 30, 2010 at 2:04 am #1048958Up::0Warren Cottis, post: 60168 wrote:I suggest you leave the compliance work with your accountant and find a more rounded business advisor who has had real world experience
Have to admit this statement makes a lot of sense Warren. And it may not necessarily detract from what a decent accountant has to offer because these days we certainly do need someone with a keen knowledge of the System to know what/when/how boxes to tick.I can see it would be pretty difficult for an accountant to be able to do that AND keep up to speed on the advise side of it as well. Unless of course, they specifically set out to do that and make it clear just what services they ARE offering.
December 30, 2010 at 10:19 am #1048959Up::0I think in the end, if you want good results, you gotta pay.
If they can help you make more money by saving you money, they are worth it.
Best way is word of mouth, business forums like this and others.
Your accountand doesn’t have to be local to you either.
Many use interstate accountants.We switched over to http://www.strategicwealth.com.au/ just over a year ago, was given Nicks reference a couple of times.
The service is not cheap, but for our business planning, personal asset protection, trust structures and property development, I feel Nick is very qualified in these fields and he will help us make alot of money by creating the correct structure from the start.You really need to operate with the best structure to support your current and projected situation.
December 30, 2010 at 11:00 am #1048960Up::0Thanks for all your advise and knowledge
I realise I must ask certain questions, my problem has been not knowing the questions, but I am learning. I am developing a list of what I believe I need to know and what clarification I need, currently there seems to be a lot of loose ends.
I do have a bookkeeper who is currently working with me, I would be happy to continue on this path if a bookkeeper is all I needThe business has grown so quick, I have always thought of it being a small business but I now employ up to 7 staff to meet the needs of my business. I am not sure of what is classed as a small business.
I am so use to having control of all aspects of things I undertake, at times this can be very overwhelming with all the polices, procedures, responsiblities and legal requirments. I never envisaged the business to be run by one person, my initial research lead me to believe it had great potential, that is why I sought out partners with experience in the industry. When the partners withdrew , it was continue or loose my initial investment. I do not regret my decision to continue I just want to get control and be able to work at my business instead of just in it.
I have also been advised to hire a business coach?
Sorry if some of my statements sound naive, but I am in many aspects in this industry and running a business. I love what I am doing and I believe this is reflected in the business to date, but it is not enough or is it ? I do have a habit of overthinking things.
Dibs
December 30, 2010 at 10:18 pm #1048961Up::0Don’t apologies for thinking too much! If you are a thinking person then you do need to work through these things in your own mind and in that case don’t let yourself be swayed by anyone else who is more a Get in There and Get it Done sort. You must work these things through in the way you are happiest with.
And on that sort of theme, it might surprise you to know that a person who spent their days at school daydreaming is very likely now to be an entrepreneur and/or radical/lateral thinker.
I can sympathise with your struggle to not only find the answers, but to also find the questions you need to ask to get the answers you need. I work in a very technical area and my early working life (40 years plus ago) was in a totally different world as far as electronics is concerned. My biggest struggles these days are not so much in understanding latest technologies but in trying to decipher the language of a totally newer technological generation so I then know the words to search with.
December 30, 2010 at 10:59 pm #1048962Up::0I agree that you get what you pay for, generally, with accountants. You need to view it as how much your accountant will save you, not what they cost – the savings should be much greater than the cost. I’ve experienced both the business advisor type accountant and doing the tax return and they are very different beasts – you are right to ‘shop’ around but just make sure you are going to the designer brands not Kmart.
December 31, 2010 at 3:10 am #1048963Up::03rd Accountant in 7 months – not sure how you can easily evaluate the entire accounting and compliance function in that period of time (let alone across three different accountants).
I guess throwing the question back the other way. Are you sure your criteria and process of evaluation (and expectations) are appropriate? Business mentoring, coaching and consulting are three different services (despite the fact that they are often described as one of the same).
Has cost been an issue to you? If you are after genuine value add support (ie more than compliance and historical reporting) then you need to approach the right firm(s) and have the right expectations. If you are after professional coaching then you need to be prepared to invest quite a bit of time and money to make it worthwhile. In a similar vain, if you are after consulting support you can probably get away with investing less time but more money (as your advisor develops and implements for you).
There are clearly some ordinary accountants out in the professional world (like in all professions) but by the same token there are just as many SME operators that have an incorrect understanding of the function and often have a hard to time accepting the cost of using the right advisors.
My advice – figure out what you are after (and are genuinely prepared to pay for) and then seek out some referrals. Compliance fees will be the base (say at an average rate of $200 per hour). Professional advisory fees will be dependant on your requirements and budget (upwards of $300 per hour). You can’t effectively coach someone for much less than 3 hours per month and you certainly cant implement a consulting solution in that time. Therefore if your budget is less than about $10k per annum (min) for extra advisory support then you run the risk of completely undermining the objective of the advice.
Anyway best of luck with number 4.
Helping build better businesses and better lives with expert financial and taxation advice. info@360partners.com.au www.360partners.com.au 03 9005 4900January 4, 2011 at 5:29 am #1048964Up::0peppie, post: 60162 wrote:Dibs, I do sympathise with you. Yes I agree you should learn all you can and ask LOTS of questions, but sometimes it just does not seem to work. A friend said to me once, you – have – to – talk – very – slowly – to – an – accountant (my apologies to all F S member accountants).Well, I am also on the lookout for a new one and not because of the kind of situation Mike mentions. My present one I have been using for about 12 years, but finally I have had enough. Too many mistakes and too many times not following my instructions/requests and too many times the same sort of mistakes/lack of following instructions etc. etc. and I have had enough.
My needs are not great, just a bit of decent service and good communication. Anybody on the south side of Sydney like to put their hand up???
Hi Paul
Try these guys below – Brian is the accountant for one of my main clients and is great. Let him know I referred him.Brian Mayoh CPA, FCA Fellow
PARTNERPO Box 809,
Riverwood NSW 2210
Ph: 02 9534 5355
Mob: 0409 924 227
Fax: 02 9533 5921January 4, 2011 at 5:34 am #1048965Up::0Accountants. Well here is my advice. Running a bookkeeping agency I deal with a lot of accountants. My experience – and this is a generalisation – tends to be that if you use large accounting corporations then you tend not to get much of a personal service and may become more of a ‘number’ unless you are a high value client. As a general rule you will get much more of a personalised service from smaller accounting businesses or sole operators. The other factor to consider is that many accounants are just that – an accountant. They deal only with figures and are not able to advise you on other aspects of running a business. It is the same with bookkeepers – there are many who simply will data enter and do your BAS, and then others who will advise on strategy, KPIS and benchmarks, how to build your business etc. But this is more unusual. Can you specify exactly what it is you want your accountant to do for you?
January 4, 2011 at 9:11 am #1048966Up::0I think the trade off with the suburban firm “grass roots” offering is that whilst they may provide the feel of a more personal touch, generally the best coaching and consulting advice will not be available in that environment (or it will be of a lower standard). I’d rather feel a little more disconnected with an advisor provided that they were professional and A grade across all areas.
I think part of the problem is that there are too many accountants offering and charging for advice that they have inadequate training and experience in. Sounds harsh but it’s true. For example we have all of our high level tax consulting (for the very large clients) reviewed by our lawyers (a big firm) before it delivered. It’s about assessing the implications of your advice, your abilities, risk etc and acknowledging that there are others that are simply more experienced in certain areas. (I’m talking very complex tax and corporate law). With regards to consulting advice, we don’t offer the support unless it’s appropriate. We declined engagements in the past when we knew it was a waste of the clients time and money. In our view the more professional thing to do is accept your limitations but at the same time try to assist your client in providing an alternative solution for those issues.
Most accountants are like your local GP. Great at conventional items and can deal quickly with the vast majority of medical issues but you wouldn’t get them to do your heart surgery.
Helping build better businesses and better lives with expert financial and taxation advice. info@360partners.com.au www.360partners.com.au 03 9005 4900 -
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