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  • #1205474
    Paul – FS Concierge
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    EdgeAutoConcepts, post: 244271, member: 66794 wrote:
    Sorry Paul, forgive me for asking, but where does your expertise lie in all this ?
    I am a business owner that relies 100% for new business based on an SEO optimised website. Results: $145K-$1M turnover in <3 years. The value of my business as an asset has more than tripled in those 3 years.

    I previously owned and operated a US based recruitment site with top 3 results for terms such as Sales Jobs in Google US.

    I am a keen observer of small business websites and am a huge believer that a website that gets all of the details right – and presents superbly to customers ready to buy is a great asset to businesses where driving sales through the internet is a natural was of building businesses.

    [USER=53375]@bb1[/USER] congrats on your carport and it is true that lots of people can learn lots of things. But it is also true that successful, high turnover, high profit small businesses mostly don’t try to do everything themselves

    #1205475
    adam_m
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    And thus lies the problem. You are giving advice based on a business that is far from ‘Typical’. You may want to study small business stats and demographics before you offer advice on such a broad spectrum of industries. You cant be giving advice based just on your own experience, especially in your position as a ‘concierge’ . Some times you have to let the ‘experts’, with a far more overarching experience have their say and give them some credit.

    You own a cleaning business yes ? And I have 17 years experience in the Web design/development industry. You would think I may know a little more than you on the subject ?

    You dont know what you dont know …

    #1205476
    bb1
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    EdgeAutoConcepts, post: 244338, member: 66794 wrote:
    And thus lies the problem. You are giving advice based on a business that is far from ‘Typical’. You may want to study small business stats and demographics before you offer advice on such a broad spectrum of industries. You cant be giving advice based just on your own experience, especially in your position as a ‘concierge’ . Some times you have to let the ‘experts’, with a far more overarching experience have their say and give them some credit.

    You own a cleaning business yes ? And I have 17 years experience in the Web design/development industry. You would think I may know a little more than you on the subject ?

    You dont know what you dont know …

    And there lies the benefits of the forum, we get advise not just from the ”experts” but across the full range of business, this world would be a lot poorer and in far more strife if we only listened to the so called experts.

    Some of the worst advise I have seen on this (and other) forum have come from the so called ”experts” who have had many years in that industry.

    Pauls advise across many subjects is valued on the forum, and that is one of the benefits we don’t say oh your current business card says cleaning business, so all you are allowed to comment on is cleaning related subjects. For anyone to be running their own successful business, be it web development cleaning, gardening or sell widgets, you have gained a vast amount of knowledge across many areas.

    #1205479
    heftzwecke
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    Paul, you are one of the few website experts telling that the small business owner can do it yourself – I like that approach. Not that I think that an expert can do a much better job than I do but it is a matter of the right tool. If you start you start with a little money and a home made website, anyway a website gets stale over time and when you have more money OK get an expert in. And the advantage is that I know now a little bit more and probably am much securer chosing the rigt expert. I know that my site has some issues which are probably built in shopify problems, which I cannot fix myself (there are other issues which I would need some rainy days), but I accept this issues at the moment because I cannot affort the expert. I would not be able to handle too many customers either.

    #1205480
    JohnTranter
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    adam_m, post: 244338, member: 66794 wrote:
    You own a cleaning business yes ? And I have 17 years experience in the Web design/development industry. You would think I may know a little more than you on the subject ?

    I’ve got 20 years in IT and Web, so I guess I trump you. :P
    Don’t dismiss BB1/Bert because he’s a ‘dumb gardener’, I think you’ll be surprised at the wealth of knowledge from some quarters on this forum. (and maybe do some reading on ad-hominem arguments, you seem to be tackling the player and not the ball)

    Regarding SEO, I’m in agreement with Bert, if you’ve got the time and inclination, go for it. If it doesn’t interest you, pay someone else if you can.
    e.g. I’m happy to pay someone to clean my house. I can do it myself but I don’t like doing it, so I have cleaners.

    #1205481
    adam_m
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    JohnTranter, post: 244518, member: 20554 wrote:
    I’ve got 20 years in IT and Web, so I guess I trump you. :p
    Don’t dismiss BB1/Bert because he’s a ‘dumb gardener’, I think you’ll be surprised at the wealth of knowledge from some quarters on this forum. (and maybe do some reading on ad-hominem arguments, you seem to be tackling the player and not the ball)

    Regarding SEO, I’m in agreement with Bert, if you’ve got the time and inclination, go for it. If it doesn’t interest you, pay someone else if you can.
    e.g. I’m happy to pay someone to clean my house. I can do it myself but I don’t like doing it, so I have cleaners.

    Well actually not, Im 17 years out from my first qualification in Graphic design, but was dabbling for about 5 years earlier while working as a Civil Engineering Draftsman. It was about 1998 I decided to make the jump professionally.

    I agree that some people have a wealth of general knowledge in many areas, but when it comes down to specifics of complex web technologies, who would you rather get your info from ? Some people have ‘hear say knowledge’ , ‘stuff’ they have picked up on from other conversations that may or may not be valid, then regurgitate it as fact. That sort of information is a huge pitfall for the un initiated.

    #1205482
    JohnTranter
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    adam_m, post: 244534, member: 66794 wrote:
    I agree that some people have a wealth of general knowledge in many areas, but when it comes down to specifics of complex web technologies, who would you rather get your info from ? Some people have ‘hear say knowledge’ , ‘stuff’ they have picked up on from other conversations that may or may not be valid, then regurgitate it as fact. That sort of information is a huge pitfall for the un initiated.

    Ok, let’s go back to the deck analogy.
    If I was thinking of building my own deck, I’d want to hear from a couple of types of people.
    1) Non-professionals who’ve built their own deck. How easy was it? How long did it take? How much did you have to learn?
    2) Professional carpenters : What are the pitfalls of doing your own deck? How do you rate the DIY decks you’ve seen?

    My understanding is that this thread is about small businesses building their own website and doing their own SEO. So, imho, the best people to hear from would be both non-professionals who’ve built their own websites and done their own SEO. And professionals who can give an honest opinion.

    If this thread was about best SEO/Web practices, then yes I agree that you would mainly want advice from people in the industry or experienced people.

    (And if anyone’s interested, I built a deck for the side of our house a few weeks ago using the modular decking from Bunnings. Made it very easy)

    #1205483
    bb1
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    JohnTranter, post: 244541, member: 20554 wrote:
    (And if anyone’s interested, I built a deck for the side of our house a few weeks ago using the modular decking from Bunnings. Made it very easy)

    They are easy aren’t they [USER=20554]@JohnTranter[/USER] , although mine was before the days of Bunnings modular may have to try that next time

    #1205484
    Greg_M
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    heftzwecke, post: 244285, member: 88078 wrote:
    If I have the impression someone hides the price I am out immediately. I only very reluctantly got in touch with a company selling plant pots when it was very urgently necessary, because they did not have a pricelist on their site.
    And yes to edge, it is simply arrogant to tell everyone to spend thousands of dollars on a great webisite when they don’t have the money or desperately need tools.
    Of course I am dependant on how shopify does the coding for me, but thanks to them I can make my own website. It would be much better advise small businesses which website builder to use and what pitfalls with the chosen builder to avoid. Which apps to chose and whiche apps to avoid.
    And how many websites made by experts did you see which are not good?

    I’m beginning to think that website builders and specialised platforms (like Shopify) are going to rule the world for micro businesses. Your idea of somewhere or someone to provide better info and critiques on which ones are better, or how to use them properly is a good idea.

    In the early days they were nearly all crap from a technical perspective, they were full of spaghetti code and often difficult for search engines to index…this has largely changed on many of them and their code base is often a lot better than a “B” grade designer/developer will produce. Your average client has no idea how to look under the hood, or what the code is doing anyway, let alone the user experience/marketing basics…most of the better platforms are killing it in this area imo.

    Once upon a time I was running my own servers and using a CMS like WordPress etc for client sites. I nearly went nuts securing and maintaining them (and I had a fair idea of what I was doing).
    The end result was I shifted any sites that REALLY needed to publish content to Squarespace…some have now been running over 3 years, never had any downtime, never been hacked and seem to deliver what the client wants…I put myself out of a job to a certain extent, but If I’d charged the real cost of maintenance most couldn’t afford it, and would’ve given me the flick anyway.

    There’s too many uncertainties for small operators in selecting the right person/business to deliver a decent result at reasonable cost (it’s usually a very low amount of $ most small businesses have for their initial web budget). A drag and drop builder allows them to learn a bit at low capital cost…if it’s a disaster they’ve usually learned enough to be more discriminating about where they go next time.

    The only sites I do now are for people that just want handball the whole deal and not have to listen to, or learn about anything technical…they just want results at a fixed cost.

    #1205485
    adam_m
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    JohnTranter, post: 244541, member: 20554 wrote:
    Ok, let’s go back to the deck analogy.
    If I was thinking of building my own deck, I’d want to hear from a couple of types of people.
    1) Non-professionals who’ve built their own deck. How easy was it? How long did it take? How much did you have to learn?
    2) Professional carpenters : What are the pitfalls of doing your own deck? How do you rate the DIY decks you’ve seen?

    My understanding is that this thread is about small businesses building their own website and doing their own SEO. So, imho, the best people to hear from would be both non-professionals who’ve built their own websites and done their own SEO. And professionals who can give an honest opinion.

    If this thread was about best SEO/Web practices, then yes I agree that you would mainly want advice from people in the industry or experienced people.

    (And if anyone’s interested, I built a deck for the side of our house a few weeks ago using the modular decking from Bunnings. Made it very easy)

    Indeed, it would be ideal to hear from those who have attempted Building their own site and done their own SEO, and share their experience. But these are a rarity because of the resident fear mongers telling them they shouldn’t attempt it them selves. Or if they have done it themselves, they are afraid to come forward because of the unfriendly, anti do it yourself, peanut gallery :)

    #1205486
    adam_m
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    I never built a deck but I did build a house once as an ‘Owner Builder’

    #1205487
    heftzwecke
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    I went with one of the diy systems shopify and I don’t do SEO, I should, I’ll do it the next rainy day, I’m potting up cuttings….
    And what adam says is really true that people feel intimidated because they did not spend big bucks one their site. And there are a lot of people telling that everything is wrong, of course it is less than perfect!

    #1205488
    Simon at SEOm
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    I feel like the influx in the last decade of so called “web developers” are due to the platforms like WordPress, Shopify, Squarespace and so on. These systems are built and designed so that a website was now within the reach of small startups and businesses without the capital to afford a custom built site, those platforms are perfect for those people.

    But then you get some that do it and realise how easy it was to put together and think “well I can do this for other people and charge”. That’s fine because generally they’re cheap, but when it comes to custom website functionality, well they’re bound by plugins and have no real knowledge of how the website is actually working.

    Sure, you’re going to get some rubbish ‘professionals’, but there are also amazing ones out there that can deliver custom built websites, that are fast, secure and built to perform for SEO. It’s just a matter of finding those developers and that’s the hard part!

    #1205489
    adam_m
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    Simon at SEOm, post: 244607, member: 89455 wrote:
    I feel like the influx in the last decade of so called “web developers” are due to the platforms like WordPress, Shopify, Squarespace and so on. These systems are built and designed so that a website was now within the reach of small startups and businesses without the capital to afford a custom built site, those platforms are perfect for those people.

    But then you get some that do it and realise how easy it was to put together and think “well I can do this for other people and charge”. That’s fine because generally they’re cheap, but when it comes to custom website functionality, well they’re bound by plugins and have no real knowledge of how the website is actually working.

    Sure, you’re going to get some rubbish ‘professionals’, but there are also amazing ones out there that can deliver custom built websites, that are fast, secure and built to perform for SEO. It’s just a matter of finding those developers and that’s the hard part!

    Agree Simon

    Lots of cowboys out there flogging WordPress sites.
    If your going to go for that type of solution, you might aswell have a go yourself if you are that way inclined. Its not difficult.

    If you have the budget, and you really need a high end website, by all means, get a pro involved. I would advise it.

    I would also add, if you get a ‘cowboy’ to build you a wordpress site , and they populate it with a number of 3rd party components, In under 12 months time your site will most likely be dead. And the guy who built it for you wont want to know you.

    Wordpress and other content management systems need constant monitoring, backups, and updates. They generally dont tell you that when they flog you a cheap website.

    #1205490
    JohnTranter
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    Simon at SEOm, post: 244607, member: 89455 wrote:
    But then you get some that do it and realise how easy it was to put together and think “well I can do this for other people and charge”. That’s fine because generally they’re cheap, but when it comes to custom website functionality, well they’re bound by plugins and have no real knowledge of how the website is actually working.

    That’s been an issue since graphic designers started using Dreamweaver to churn out hideously coded websites. They haven’t lowered the bar, they’ve just added to the amount you can do with minimal knowledge.

    My main issue with Web Designers calling themselves Web Developers is that I occasionally get a request for a logo or a page mockup.
    People get confused and assume one is the same as the other :)

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