What would you do? Consumer advice wanted.

[The Copy Chick]

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Knowing your right as a consumer is one thing. Enforcing them can be another matter. And at what point do you give up, or get nasty?

I’m hoping to get some points of view about a matter I’m currently dealing with – both from a consumer, and business operator perspective.

Back in July of 2008 my husband and I purchased an induction cooktop to put in our new home, which had not yet been completed. It was the EOFY stocktake sales and we were told the product was new to Australia so the price was further reduced to help boost sales. The original price was $2,500 – we got it for $1,500 – so it wasn’t a “cheap and nasty” product (there were also several features we liked on this model). The cooktop also came with a 2 year warranty.

It took another 15 months for our house to be completed and the cooktop was installed in October 2009.

We noticed it took quite a while for the cooktop to work each time we switched it on – sometimes 10-15 minutes… but as the same brand oven went through an initialisation sequence (of about 30 seconds), we thought perhaps the cooktop did the same and got into the habit of turning it on about 20 min before we wanted to use it.

This went on for about 18 months until the right-hand side of the stove stopped working altogether (April 2011). While the 2 year warranty of the unit had now expired due to the original purchase date, it had been installed brand-new only 18 months earlier and given it came with the 2 year warranty, I felt we should be able to have things sorted out.

I checked with the ACCC and their guidelines supported this.

I contacted the retailer, who advised me to get in touch with the manufacturer… which was all good and fine – until we realised the manufacturer had gone into liquidation in 2007. 12 months before we purchased the product.

Eventually I was directed to the new repair agency who contacted the company who was now distributing these cooktops and – following a letter advising of my rights as a consumer under the ACCC guidelines – they consented to repair the cooktop under warranty. By this stage it was July 2011.

But, so far, so good.

Until about 3 days later when we were using the newly replaced side and a loud bang came from the cooktop and blew out all the fuses.

Now the entire cooktop was stuffed.

I got in touch with the repair company again and after wrong parts being ordered and a few other dramas, the cooktop was once again repaired – albiet some 3 months later.

Things worked fabulously for a couple of months and we realised the huge delay we initially had after turning the unit on and being able to use it had not been normal, so the original unit had clearly been faulty from the start. But, with the new components, it seemed everything was going swimmingly.

Until it started turning itself off during cooking. This started happening in July 2012 and in August, while I was using the unit, a large spark flew out the front between the cooktop and the bench and once again blew out all the fuses. We have an isolation switch on the wall which also operates the oven – and when we switched this back on to see if the oven was OK another large spark flew out of the switch and melted it.

Now not only could we not use the cooktop, we couldn’t use the over either.

So back to the repair centre. Again!

Again they replaced the electrical components (which took a month), despite my concerns that it was now more than just a crap appliance – it was also a fire hazard.

Late September and the unit is switching itself off again, so I contact the manufacturer directly to let them know I’m expecting to need more repairs. As of Sunday, it has stopped working altogether.

They have decided to replace the entire unit with a later model, but now we have to pay to adjust our benchtops to fit. Needless to say, I’m not at all happy – and given we have stone benchtops, I’m not sure we CAN even make the hole smaller.

While I know the unit is now well and truly out of warranty, at what point is it unreasonable to expect more repairs/replacements? I was asking for my money back before the last lot of repairs, but given that wasn’t looking likely, conceded to yet another round of repairs.

Sorry for the length of this post, but If it was your cooktop, what would you expect to happen? If you were the retailer/manufacturer, would you consider you had adequately addressed the situation?

I’d really appreciate your thoughts and feedback.

[MyGreatIdea]

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As a consumer, I wouldn’t want any model, latest or otherwise, of their product.

I also wouldn’t be prepared to alter my existing benchtops to accommodate a new model, given the product’s track record.

I would negotiate for a refund, using the changes needed to be made as leverage. Will they pay for the changes? Not likely, but they may be willing to compensate you just to get rid of you lol.

Wendy

[Divert To Mobile]

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Its my understanding from what you have written that the cooktop you purchased isnt fit for the purpose in which it was sold for. For that matter I dont thin it was ever fit for its advertised use.

The stone benchtop might seem tricky but in good faith the benchtop was altered to suit the product. Responsiblility is there.

On a side note,
The part that confuses me in your scenario is the responsible entity.
The way I interpret the new act entity who makes the sale to the consumer is responsible. That entity would then go up the chain to the manufacturer.

Steve

[JacquiPryor]

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And at what point do you give up, or get nasty?

I am a shocker when it comes to “the principle of the matter” so, wouldn’t give up. If I strongly believe I am right as a consumer and the supplier is the wrong, I will keep pushing rather than give up – why should I?

Yours is a tricky one though – as you noted, the warranty has expired. Is there anything in the warranty that actually dictates when the two years commences? (From purchase, or, from installation?)

I certainly wouldn’t be altering my benchtops at my cost if they’ve supplied a faulty product to begin with – that can’t even be repaired. According to the ACCC information, your product appears to have a major problem – i.e. it’s proven to be unsafe. If they are not able to repair it properly – clearly they can’t, otherwise they wouldn’t be offering a new one. Then, I would think they should be responsible for any costs associated with supplying a new one – but also that you should be entitled to a refund. My concern remains the 2 yr warranty that’s potentially expired.

If you can’t negotiate a refund with them, or for them to cover costs of replacement – I’d give the ACCC a buzz and see if they can assist. To file a complaint with them though, I believe your complaint would need to be against an Australian company, not an overseas manufacturer – so, it may be the actual retailer/importer who you purchased from in the first place that you would need to follow up with.

All the best with it Anna…

[Divert To Mobile]

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I just realised also that your purchase was before the new consumer protection act and so your covered by the old rules. That doesnt mean you dont have rights, I think they’re still responsible for your benchtops.

Steve

[Aura Wellness Clinic]

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I do tend to agree with Scrooge, it seems the stress of this cooktop is weighing heavy.

Cut your losses and move on – buy a new and affordable brand and enjoy some trouble free cooking for your family and friends.

You will laugh about it all one day.

[bridiej]

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Personally I would have expected to have it replaced the first time…

I completely understand it’s a pain in the proverbial, but fighting could end up in months of stress. I’m not sure how you can make the hole in the benchtop smaller either… are they prepared to offer you a different model that will fit the hole?

In an ideal world I’m sure we’d all love to buy Miele, but unless we win the lotto it’s not likely to happen…

[Shaukat Adam Khalid]

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This is a horrible experience.

For me, it comes down to opportunity cost. You can pursue and “win” but overall it can be loss in terms of time and energy.

One of my mentors believes in sending the bill to the clients so a more worthwhile task would be to get accquire new clients, reactivate past clients or increase prices.

If principle is an issue, outsource the work to a VA to chase it up for you so you can focus on more productive tasks.

[Past-Member]

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Do not invest more emotionally than that which you have to give.

Sometimes it’s time to just cut your losses and move on.
However, as they are offering a replacement unit, you could have a steel piece made as an extra surround so that it looks part of the bench without having to ‘close’ the hole.

Or else go shopping for a new unit and get exactly what you want/need now. Same thing with the steel surround if necessary to make it fit.

All the best.

[Geronimo]

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I went through an almost exact same issue with a hot water system about a month ago.

The main difference between the new and old legislation for your scenario is that while under the new legislation you can demand a repair, replacement or refund, under the old, it needs to be a negotiated settlement. They are legally liable, as the item is not fit for purpose. The two year warranty is a non-issue. As it is reasonable to expect a cook top to work for three years, you are well within your rights.

Anyway, as it needs to be a negotiated settlement, I would explain to them that the replacement needs to be the same size of larger due to a stone bench top. Surely they can see that with a stone top you can’t shrink the hole, so is effectively useless to you. Or see if they will provide a refund, or even credit to the value of the initial purchase.

[The Copy Chick]

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Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

To clarify a couple of points, it was the original manufacturer who went under – not the supplier (Harvey Norman).

@Jaqui – the warranty is generally from the date of purchase, which made the expiration July 2010. However, the ACCC maintains that we should have had “reasonable use” from when it was installed – not purchased. After niggly issues from the start, it eventually had a major failing 18 months after installation.

@Scrooge – I really appreciate your veiw point and it was because the original warranty had expired that we were prepared to have the unit repaired, rather than replaced. In actual fact, the unit had was shown to be faulty while it was still under warranty (by taking 10-15 minutes to “initiate” before we could use it), but because we hadn’t used an induction cooktop before, we didn’t realise this was abnormal at the time.

After the first lot of repairs and the unit working “correctly”, it became apparent it had been faulty from the start.

In that regard, while genuinely appreciate the manufacturer has made ongoing repairs, I also believe we should have been entitled to a replacement unit when the first lot of repairs blew out 3 days after they were done. And how many repairs should a brand new – and relatively expensive – unit require? If it came with a 2 year warranty, then should it be unreasonable to expect to get at least 2 years use from it?

Yes… I could just capitulate and buy a new unit or pay to have my benchtops modified (if that’s even possible), but I’m pretty sure a lot of these big companies rely on it all being “too hard”. I won’t bow so easily!

So.. I think from here it may be another call to the ACCC to see what they can advise.

Again, I appreciate all the different points of view

[Anonymous]

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if me i would switch the topic to sue the distributor/seller for selling unwarranted or actually-unwarranted products without informing customer the fact.

then i would not just stay with a refund, i would pursue a compensation covering your loss in money paid, time, exposure to risks, inconvenience and costs arisen from such inconvenience, etc.

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