Home – New Forums Other discussions Why is the attrition rate so high on Flying Solo?

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  • #1190516
    Jason Ramage
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    Hey Paul

    Again, i tend to agree with you although you appear to be writing from a professional ‘service’ more so than a retailer or product supplier/buyer. Reason i say this is that you have the positive attribute and understanding of the term (albeit you didnt use it) in partnering. This term is so so so important in cross referenced services where one may specialise in one service and/or may get too busy from time to time and has to bounce off of another that they trust, can honestly recommend and then offload in a compassionate manner.. This i can attest to myself with my own personal history across several fields. And this is where i enter retail, and my contrary belief..

    In retail, people tend to guard these suppliers.. Generally there are many thousands of dollars invested in travel, research and trade shows in order to find a perfect supplier that a. supplies at a price suitable and b. delivers quality (or some other measurable unit that is desirable to the buyer). I am not saying a professional is not monetarily invested in their profession, although one can not compare apples directly to apples with service industry professionals.

    example, Paul Peace may be an expert coach with several years of schooling at Melbourne Uni and can deliver a conclusive solution to any problem no matter how unique within 1 day as opposed to Paul War who has the same schooling, same vested interest although can not for the life of him resolve any problem presented to him without first earning $2.5k :).. Although they are the same, a buyer will clearly differentiate between the 2 and as such the relationship, the partnering or the referral program (should you opt to refer to them) would be null and void as most would go with the first option of PAUL PEACE due to his personal abilities.. So sharing advice in a forum for a service related industry and suppliers within said industry (note not manufacturers) would be an easy as it would be difficult for said competitor to replicate your market and or even offer it in your local area… But lets get back to retail..

    In retail, if i offer my supplier to a person interested in doing the same i am introducing EXACTLY THE SAME PRODUCT that if sold online would only be differentiated via PRICE ALONE.. Quality would be same, colours same, items same, freight similar and so forth.. As such, sharing a retail supplier in this situation could potentially be extremely damaging.. Furthering to this, this particular item could potentially be sold to one of my very own customers as the distribution point with online services could be sent from anywhere within Australia – as opposed to wanting to speak to an accountant, there is little likelihood i would travel to Cairns and go to a competitor you provided advice to on how to service oneself if i lived in Melbourne as did you?

    Reason i dont agree wholeheartedly is due to the spammers wanting the hit and run process although there is also a HUGE influx of fashion wanna bees that merely want suppliers lists with little to no interest in pursuing it.. Personally, even if i wanted to share contacts i am sceptical as my suppliers are like friends and if i was to send them a referral every single time someone asks i would be jeopardising my own supply relationship with these potential tyre kickers. Not being negative, more factual about the queries that sometimes hit a forum like this.

    You have a chirpy approach and positive to all engagements, although i feel that the message of complexity in handing over contacts or suppliers may have on all parties involved.

    Jason Ramage | Lucas Arthur Pty Ltd | E: hello@lucasarthur.net.au   P: 61 3 8324 0344    M: 61 412 244 888
    #1190517
    Jason Ramage
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    Paul Peace, post: 223739, member: 54653 wrote:
    The trouble is, here, it’s too often ‘you scratch my back and I’ll not bother with yours’!

    Oops i missed this part.. Please observe, this is not a neg on you nor trying to be abrasive in any way although i tell you that there are a core group of people in this forum (unpaid although highly skilled) that freely offer advice.

    Advice from all facets of the business world and at all levels. Might i just reiterate, FREELY offered advice. Many in here do not expect anything in return and i personally have engaged, coffee’d and drank with over the short time i have been present in FS.. Rarely do i use the word ‘I’ so much in my posts, although i feel i would be considered a fairly good contributor and i think in the time i have been here have posted maybe 3 or 4 times about what i do. And of that, i never try to sell anything it is always an offering of advice for anyone considering a service like mine or a product like mine.

    This type of forum quickly weeds out those that are for themselves, holding their own agendas and lets the dust settle quickly so the real help can occur. Just saying…

    Jason Ramage | Lucas Arthur Pty Ltd | E: hello@lucasarthur.net.au   P: 61 3 8324 0344    M: 61 412 244 888
    #1190518
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    I’ve not regarded anything you said as a neg, just an opinion, and I’m feeling a bit awkward in all honesty because I raised some issues that have created some eggshells. I don’t want to be unapproachable or be encouraging disclaimers. I’m talking about patterns with that one – people who are routinely and only critiquing and rarely saying what they agree with. In particular, they just hop on certain people’s posts with that purpose and some newbies will leave like in any community if made to feel unwelcome.

    Some people say you shouldn’t give to receive. I’m one…to a point. If I bought someone a birthday present for 5 years and didn’t even get a card off them, I’d think, okay, I might not give to receive but now I’m becoming a mug. It’s a question of extent.

    I’m open about my motives. I’m here to help others, be helped, and to incidentally, and hopefully sensitively, promote my business whilst remaining on-topic. I can’t just help with no expectation. I could easily spend the time spent on here just doing private coaching and mentoring, get enormous reward, no awkward moments, people really showing gratitude and feeding back how it’s helped, and get paid handsomely for it. I choose to be here. But I want to see more from others. They’re depriving the community of their thoughts and our learning. I want a win-win.

    Please note that I said, ‘The trouble is, here, it’s too often ‘you scratch my back and I’ll not bother with yours’!’ I’m aware of the good around here. This post is about the attrition from contributor mode to read-only mode or never visiting mode and some of the reasons for that. The people who are playing fair are not included.

    As for your industry, I wouldn’t expect you’d throw in the supplier just like that! You’d talk behind the scenes, making effective use of PMing and build a relationship first, perhaps talking on Skype, etc. That’s if you get that far. Sure, some people do want an easy ride. I know that.

    Anyway, I’ll try to curb my enthusiasm now so others can have a voice and I look forward to reading your thoughts even if I don’t reply. They’ve been very insightful.

    #1190519
    bb1
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    HarryLuke Logistics, post: 223731, member: 34537 wrote:
    By the way, have you ever had a search on how many people ask for wholesale clothing suppliers in this forum and how many of the replies are people trying to sell or hoodwink or sell wholesale lists to the OP’s?

    Mr Luke, I have a good laugh every time someone offers a wholesale list, I have actually tried to follow them up, as I am very keen to get such a list and they never respond.

    #1190520
    JohnTranter
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    bb1, post: 223725, member: 53375 wrote:
    If you are going to do something with old threads, just make them read only (cant reopen), but don’t archive, there is still a lot of good information in some of those old posts,

    You’re right Bert, but I didn’t mean archive in the sense of removing it.
    I’m thinking of other forums where you open an old post and it has
    “THIS POST HAS BEEN ARCHIVED” in big red letters at the top, and it’s read only.

    #1190521
    Past-Member
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    I agree that anything more than 6 months old should be READ ONLY – this means that a new post can refer to an old thread for reference, but all new comments go in a new thread.
    I will add another few reasons to those of people coming and going and returning: juggling new bub, moving, illness, family caring commitments. Cheers.

    #1190522
    Jason Ramage
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    Morning

    Rarely do i ever pull apart someones post sentence by sentence although i feel that my input or assessment of the OP is not being communicated effectively based on the reply. Granted, probably my fault in the way i deliver things or write and for that i apologise profusely although i do feel that each side of the spectrum needs to be highlighted in a few points – not that they are opposing ends, just differing backgrounds represent different expectations – as you could ideally expect from any situation. What one takes from something will differ depending on what one wants to get out of the situation!

    Paul Peace, post: 223743, member: 54653 wrote:
    I’ve not regarded anything you said as a neg, just an opinion, and I’m feeling a bit awkward in all honesty because I raised some issues that have created some eggshell

    Awesome, glad to hear this and if the eggshells are referring to me (which i am fairly certain they are now) its all good :) although you could be spot on as it can sometimes be difficult to have impartiality in a forum like this when you are trying to contribute to its growth. Mind you, on growth, i reckon the adminions and Robert have done an outstanding job in managing this site, growing its base, its offerings, its platform and so forth which tends to weed out the irrelevant and spammers pretty tout suite!

    Paul Peace, post: 223743, member: 54653 wrote:
    I’m talking about patterns with that one – people who are routinely and only critiquing and rarely saying what they agree with. In particular, they just hop on certain people’s posts with that purpose and some newbies will leave like in any community if made to feel unwelcome.

    This can also be true, although this assessment is a pet grievance of mine in respect to some that are unable to gather all the information and historical significance of a contributor. Assessing previous posts, their post ranking, how long been with forum, likes received, frequency and depth of posts as well as how often the member who is critiquing the person with the ‘pattern’ has engaged in suitable conversation to make accurate assessments of said person. Its easy to brandish negs on some posters based on a snapshot of existence or engagement although that snapshot may not necessarily be the totality of that individuals contributions. Maybe it is, although more needs to be considered. Maybe just that isolated post irritated them, rubbed against them or they had strong and differing opinions which didnt compliment the OP’s belief who was offended by this? We are not a forum (not that i control the forum or its peeps) that says yes sir, no sir three bags full sir because if we were i dont think much benefit would come from it for those starting out in business :)

    Paul Peace, post: 223743, member: 54653 wrote:
    Some people say you shouldn’t give to receive. I’m one…to a point. If I bought someone a birthday present for 5 years and didn’t even get a card off them, I’d think, okay, I might not give to receive but now I’m becoming a mug. It’s a question of extent.

    Love this above comment.. So eloquent and picturesque of the message you are wanting to portray, although it also goes to show how different everyone is – which i adore. For example, to elaborate on the story, there will be some friends that boundaries have no boundaries (LOL) and others that are not as close. Example: i buy a present for a mate i have known for some (oh shoot) nearly 30 years and we rarely see each other.. He never buys me anything, never sends me anything and we only occasionally catch up although i would consider him one of my most trusted mates – one i can catch up with when and if i need or he needs and nothing has changed, nor will ever change. Even though i buy him BDay presents, its because i want to and not out of obligation and as such expect nothing in return. That being said, whenever we catch up and if we monetise it, i never touch my wallet when we go out and its never expected from either party. Its all about the minutia of how we are personally thinking more so than what everyone else is thinking.

    This leads me to an interesting topic, and one that can contribute to concerns within forums. We all speak from our experiences, and if you ask a question related to something we think we know we reply from that perspective and with that hat on – even if it is not what the OP was asking. Everyone in life, speaks from their own experiences and responds to certain events, tones, questions in a way they have experienced before – bit like reflex. So if i ask, who has a wholesale list in fashion, lots of replies will come back with little effort like ‘oh, another list request, hey go over here and look’ instead of using fresh eyes and this could possible be a part of the resilience that is experienced in said forums from time to time.

    Back on topic:

    Paul Peace, post: 223743, member: 54653 wrote:
    I’ve not regarded anything you said as a neg, just an opinion, and I’m feI’m open about my motives. I’m here to help others, be helped, and to incidentally, and hopefully sensitively, promote my business whilst remaining on-topic. I can’t just help with no expectation. I could easily spend the time spent on here just doing private coaching and mentoring, get enormous reward, no awkward moments, people really showing gratitude and feeding back how it’s helped, and get paid handsomely for it. I choose to be here. But I want to see more from others. They’re depriving the community of their thoughts and our learning. I want a win-win.

    Thanks re neg, and its admirable re your approach and expectations. Its the willingness of forumites like you and many others with certain skill sets that like to contribute a little whilst subtly promoting themselves. Most do so to an extreme to blur the edges although i am confused about the rest of the message. ‘i can’t just help with no expectation’ – but isnt this what we are here for, to help with no expectation in return? no pat on the back, no thanks (specially from noob posters)? no reward other than knowing inwardly that you have helped another? and so forth? Your last sentence ties it together a little, but maybe i am fragmenting it a little too much? Its always nice that others, and i think this has been your point all along, contribute with their generous expertise rather than just taking taking taking? is this the message?

    Paul Peace, post: 223743, member: 54653 wrote:
    As for your industry, I wouldn’t expect you’d throw in the supplier just like that! You’d talk behind the scenes, making effective use of PMing and build a relationship first, perhaps talking on Skype, etc. That’s if you get that far. Sure, some people do want an easy ride. I know that.

    Ok, sorry to say although i feel you are still not seeing the world from all sides on this one.. Someone in retail that finds a supplier IS NOT AND I DOUBT VERY MUCH WILL EVER share their suppliers list (manufacturer etc) – more so if someone is wanting EXACTLY the same product, which is something i have vast experience in! I will refer back to service industry as opposed to retail.

    Service: Are generally happy to share their contacts and this is for many reasons, one that you have mentioned and its about someone in service generally has an extensive list of contacts that can be freely shared between professionals or contacts in order to benefit one another. Sometimes, more deviantly, in some professions this is how one makes money. Kickbacks, referral cudos and trailing commissions from referring certain specialists. This is almost an expectation within most profession services from coaching, banking, finance, insurance, accounting, legal, and so forth and so forth and also for the fact that the fields are so specialised that there own business almost relies on having to provide referrals to almost survive

    AS OPPOSED TO:
    retailer: These guys spend years if not longer locating a supplier/manufacturer and have to work through so much to get started, both time wise and financially with trials and errors along the way. Providing a direct competitor (wholesale clothing to someone wanting to sell identical product) for no return can be seen as suicide in some industries. These contacts earned are gold and are the fundamental foundations of said business in many cases and should the relationships become rocky in any way or another competitor starts and takes over your relationships with your said suppliers you may be jeopardising your own existence. I know this is an extreme, although its true too. At least in service, if you are a coach and coaching someone to set up their first massage centre (dont be crude) and refer them to an accountant it is highly unlikely that you will lose that client to the accountant as its a varying field of expertise and there is also no way that your client is about to set up a business directly competing with you. But if i give a newbie a contact in wholesale clothing, they may go and buy directly from that supplier when i could realistically have sold to them at wholesale or worked something out etc etc or just helped someone set up a business in direct competition with me (note direct, i am not talking businesses similar to mine such as i buy girls plus size dresses and you want to buy guys skinny jeans – i see no problem here if no cross over – but do see a problem with someone seeking advice for contacts in buying womens leggings if i too am selling womens leggings.)

    Paul Peace, post: 223743, member: 54653 wrote:
    Anyway, I’ll try to curb my enthusiasm now so others can have a voice.

    Why would you curb your enthusiasm if this is the point of your post, worthy contributions?

    Wow long post, my apologies.

    Jason Ramage | Lucas Arthur Pty Ltd | E: hello@lucasarthur.net.au   P: 61 3 8324 0344    M: 61 412 244 888
    #1190523
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    Quickly, as you’ve asked direct questions of me in particular:

    • Retail: I’ve been in online retail and there are many different approaches to competition and collaboration.
    • My approach to giving: I prefer partnership, exchange, engagement, transaction – something more dynamic, social, relational and mutual. I’d like to see more people share their views and enrich the community.
    • If someone wants free business assistance, be nice and give something to enrich someone else’s business (pay it forward/back). This includes people new to business.
    • I’m curbing my enthusiasm so we get a range of voices. My posts have been very long and I am aware some folk are on small devices or time poor.
    #1190524
    Jason Ramage
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    Paul Peace, post: 223769, member: 54653 wrote:
    Quickly, as you’ve asked direct questions of me in particular:
    • Retail: I’ve been in online retail and there are many different approaches to competition and collaboration.
    • My approach to giving: I prefer partnership, exchange, engagement, transaction – something more dynamic, social, relational and mutual. I’d like to see more people share their views and enrich the community.
    • If someone wants free business assistance, be nice and give something to enrich someone else’s business (pay it forward/back). This includes people new to business.
    • I’m curbing my enthusiasm so we get a range of voices. My posts have been very long and I am aware some folk are on small devices or time poor.

    Ok,

    Is interesting that you would happily share your well vetted suppliers/manufacturers to DIRECT competition – understand there are many ways to approach business, foster relationships and build long term profitability.. Maybe i am just to naive.

    Moving one, honestly feeling like you are truly trying to close me out of the conversation with your subtleties and not sure how to take that.. Although i will let your posts work on there own and allow ‘others’ to contribute..

    Cheers

    Jason Ramage | Lucas Arthur Pty Ltd | E: hello@lucasarthur.net.au   P: 61 3 8324 0344    M: 61 412 244 888
    #1190525
    GuestMember
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    I respect your views on retail.
    Re the point about ‘closing you out’ or ‘subtleties’, do you mean using the word ‘others’ was a covert signal to you personally to not contribute any more? I’ve enjoyed your posts. I’ll be honest, I think they’ve been long but that’s very different to asking you not to contribute. You’ve also reflected on this.

    What I’m doing is calming my comments down here to make space for others. I feel I’m occupying too much space and reflecting on that.

    Please understand that I’m cornered! If I don’t respond to your questions, it appears rude. If I do, I feel I’ve already said a lot here. If I don’t converse here, you said it was my post and I should get back on it! But if I do, others want some space. So please allow me to go peacefully and chip in here and there!
    :)

    #1190526
    Peter – FS Administrator
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    JohnTranter, post: 223685, member: 20554 wrote:
    Personally I’d like to see the archiving of old posts. The amount of times old threads have resurfaced because a newbie has searched for their topic of choice and responded to a 2 year old thread. It’s particularly annoying when it’s a hot topic and we have to sit through the same old tired arguments. e.g. “Which is better, Shopify or Bigcommerce?”

    Thanks John and others for this discussion around archiving old posts – it’s something we’ve looked at a few times. We’re going to review what options there are for add-ons around this for the forum. While there is a lot of gold in old threads, there’s a good argument for closing them from new comments. However, we also have some threads ‘business bookshelf’, ‘what I’d do differently’ just as examples where they are somewhat timeless and do have a value that builds from contributions over time so we may not want a blanket approach. Another option that we had on the previous forum system was an ‘are you sure’ alert/message that popped up to let people know that it was an old thread, which seemed to work well as a deterrent.
    We should be able to strike the right balance.
    Thanks again
    Peter

    #1190527
    bb1
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    Must admit I am interested in the read. But am wondering if my question about 10 posts back has being overlooked.

    Is the attrition rate truly high ?

    #1190528
    bb1
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    FS Administrator, post: 223794, member: 1 wrote:
    Another option that we had on the previous forum system was an ‘are you sure’ alert/message that popped up to let people know that it was an old thread, which seemed to work well as a deterrent.

    Peter

    Peter, I thought the are you sure was still there, I thought I was asked only a month or so back, or maybe I was just dreaming… PS if making read only I think 6 months is to short, as some topics do go for a while awaiting feedback on progress, but 1 to 2 years sounds ideal. PS. Just my opinion

    #1190529
    GuestMember
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    Here’s one of the ancient fellows, 6 years old and people still replying:
    [ATTACH=full]984[/ATTACH]
    Replied to on Saturday!
    I’ve nearly done it a few times, and possibly have.

    #1190530
    Peter – FS Administrator
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    Paul Peace, post: 223827, member: 54653 wrote:
    Here’s one of the ancient fellows, 6 years old and people still replying:
    [ATTACH=full]984[/ATTACH]
    Replied to on Saturday!
    I’ve nearly done it a few times, and possibly have.

    Good point. You do need to be patient with marketing activity, but if the promotion still isn’t showing signs of life after 6 years I think it’s fair to say it hasn’t worked!!

    bb1, post: 223796, member: 53375 wrote:
    Peter, I thought the are you sure was still there, I thought I was asked only a month or so back, or maybe I was just dreaming… PS if making read only I think 6 months is to short, as some topics do go for a while awaiting feedback on progress, but 1 to 2 years sounds ideal. PS. Just my opinion

    No, I just had a look and it this was a plugin we had on the last system, but wasn’t a direct equivalent for this one.

    Thanks for the thoughts. We’ve found a couple of options already so we’ll research what will be best. Thx!!

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