Home – New Forums Other discussions Why is the attrition rate so high on Flying Solo?

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  • #1190547
    GuestMember
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    Thanks for taking the time to reply Greg. It’s good to hear your thoughts because I thought this might be at the heart of my finer grain details on communication style and general decency, complementing – but not the same thing as – Roberts interesting higher level thoughts on changes in internet culture more generally.

    There is a range of personality types on any forum. It’s true, some like an argument, some prefer something gentler and you can’t please all the people all the time. Personally, I prefer it when people just add their thoughts or advice rather than commenting negatively on every post certain people make.

    To be sure, saying something contrary, tactfully, here and there is fine; what I mean is people who are routinely finding the neg in what certain people are saying, following them around the fora, perhaps because they don’t like them, or they are a perceived threat to their FS status or business. In my experience, the small number of offenders are largely not noobs as I might expect, but long-time users of FS who get rather precious about this and see themselves as having more authority than a noob (er, who’s ‘community’ is this?). They take a patriarchal stance, know best, and often see themselves as community spokespeople. They employ political tactics to encourage people to side with them and all sorts of distasteful goings on.

    I can’t name names and it rarely warrants a moderator’s involvement on a single case. It’s something you see en masse. Two people have been particular irritants to me. One trolls me around, always finding what’s wrong with my question or comment, while remaining mostly positive or simply adding their thoughts on others. They readily support longer standing members.

    The other makes people’s lives hell and makes the SEO area of the forum a no-go area, out-experting (love that word) everyone, even their fellow SEO experts.

    My partner has told me to get off here. She says I’m spending too much time dealing with conflict. I’ve stayed for these reasons. 1. This is an amazing resource and I love helping and learning in business. 2. I can be a pretty stubborn sod if I think a small number of people are shaping where I can and cannot go without feeling uncomfortable. 3. I hope someone finds my business of interest. 4. Assertiveness training. Good practice.

    #1190548
    Jason Ramage
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    Paul Peace, post: 223974, member: 54653 wrote:
    I can’t name names and it rarely warrants a moderator’s involvement on a single case. It’s something you see en masse. Two people have been particular irritants to me. One trolls me around, always finding what’s wrong with my question or comment, while remaining mostly positive or simply adding their thoughts on others. They readily support longer standing members.
    /QUOTE]

    Wow, ok Paul i have certainly gotten your message.. You dont need to name names its all written within your comment above.. Have just gone from being 6’2″ to now under 4’5″ due to having my knees cut off.. Although, not naming names, it seems quite obvious.

    To be honest, i think you will find whomever replies to any post (yours or others) are most definitely not following the OP around… The behaviours you are exhibiting or raising may be valid, although some of the comments will warrant replies, rebuttals, back and forth as per a regular forum.

    Not all posts to OP’s will follow what the OP wants or expects.

    Must say, everything you are eluding to in what you do not like about others posting or replying on topic appears appears to also be shown in your own posts of late – so not sure how that sits.

    Wishing you all the best, i personally have enjoyed your posts – if thats not reciprocated i apologise, and as for those thinking they are patriarchal – thats casting a a big net in the hope of catching something.. Really, if poking the bear is your ambition, you may not get what you expect in return as most just glimpse across most posts.

    Anyways, you dont like my posts or input nor view on things.. so i am sure this is not being read in the vein its intended – politely and with a little side variant on your thoughts, but so be it.

    Jason Ramage | Lucas Arthur Pty Ltd | E: hello@lucasarthur.net.au   P: 61 3 8324 0344    M: 61 412 244 888
    #1190549
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    Ouch. And I never thought those things. That’s really saddening.

    If I don’t say anything, it continues. If I do, people implicate themselves. If I say who, it is public shaming. If I send a moderator a message, they are long-standing members. I’ve already seen a longer leash for these people because they also do a lot of good elsewhere and frankly, maintain a stable membership base under the shifting sands. If I PM them, that would be my first step in my usual complaints escalation process. However, I’ve already seen their response to my feedback. Not sure what others have done about it.

    The chance of this being any individual is 1 in 80,948 unless you happen to already know who all the ‘long-standing members’ are – a rather arbitrary filter. That’s still a big number. Take it easy. Please.

    The irony here is that you could actually become a) that which I never said you were, and b) that which you’re protesting you’re not. How odd!!! You’re putting words in my mouth here, leaving me defending things that are not present, and making these posts about ‘me and you’, the Paul and HarryLuke show in some kind of counter-transference.

    Not once in this discussion did I have you in mind in that way. I go through many, many instances before I start being concerned about any individual like that. And yet, now you’ve brought it to consciousness. Most strange situation.

    So peace out. IT IS NOT YOU. Please.

    #1190550
    Greg_M
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    Now this is more like a real forum, some conflict, even a touch of paranoia.

    Personalities are what makes a forum and or a good debate, I’ll happily name names but it might get the whole thread removed (wouldn’t be the first time).

    Paul, seems to me you may be over complicating this a tad, it’s still just a forum-not a nationally televised summit on the future of the world. I get the impression you have a very strong “competitive” gene (takes one to know one) … and you won’t be the lone ranger on this or any other forum, but being open, if people stay within the guidelines you have to cop it sweet or move on. Even from people who get up your nose, it’s the very nature of the beast imo.

    BTW, I find it quite novel that a forum could be classed as assertiveness training, love it.

    Back to painting the laundry before my partner gives me her opinion.

    Cheers

    #1190551
    Jason Ramage
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    Greg_M, post: 223982, member: 38207 wrote:
    Now this is more like a real forum, some conflict, even a touch of paranoia.

    LOL, you are spot on here… although it tends to come from comments circumvented over several posts before it kicks in with me – not one off’s, not twice, not thrice although a few more :)

    Paul Peace, post: 223979, member: 54653 wrote:
    The irony here is that you could actually become a) that which I never said you were, and b) that which you’re protesting you’re not. How odd!!!

    Not sure of b/ – cant see myself protesting something i am not – generally just stating my observations.

    What must be said is that the more ‘things’ are raised or eluded to the more people will extract as they feel is really occurring. You are right about how to tackle, email, moderator etc etc as to what is best course of action – although no action is the one that causes more grief than good. Each of us grasp the language of each other in a forum to the depth of what we know, some are scholars some are not and each interpretation without tonality of camaraderie has a differing effect. Generally negatively as it leaves people guessing and coming to ones own conclusions.

    Certainly not meant to be a Peace and Harry show, cos that would be a poor show that few would visit.. Although it was not my goal to put words in your mouth to taint any waters, although the inferences within a lot of posts of late (not just yours) tends to be creating a veil of diplomacy with a lingering insult (or assault) hidden just below the surface. Again, this is not your posts, just many of late that i have also seen.

    Paul Peace, post: 223979, member: 54653 wrote:
    Not once in this discussion did I have you in mind in that way. I go through many, many instances before I start being concerned about any individual like that. And yet, now you’ve brought it to consciousness. Most strange situation.

    Glad i could get you thinking of me ;)

    Be well

    Jason Ramage | Lucas Arthur Pty Ltd | E: hello@lucasarthur.net.au   P: 61 3 8324 0344    M: 61 412 244 888
    #1190552
    GuestMember
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    No worries.

    I found your post funny Greg. Thanks for that. “Nationally televised summit on the future of the world”. Good reminder of perspective. I’m still laughing. :)

    As for me, I’m collaborative where other people are, and a giver, even where they’re not. I view being competitive as ‘me not them’ or ‘me more than them’.

    Still, what I’m saying here is that if others do that to me or anyone else, I’m not putting up with it either. So it’s a request for just treatment rather than competitiveness. The people on the receiving end, of which I’m one, are not ‘one-up’. And they’re not ‘one-down’. The request is for respect. At the moment, these people are nuisances.

    My partner just removed two competitive nuisances from her LinkedIn group. She was just telling me how people started coming out of the woodwork as the atmosphere improved. Tonnes of people are now posting who she thought never came on. They were clearly in read-only mode. Actually, she didn’t remove them, she made each of their comments go to moderation. It filtered them and also slowed them down as they were all over every post previously.

    #1190553
    Jason Ramage
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    Paul Peace, post: 223994, member: 54653 wrote:
    I found your post funny Greg. Thanks for that. “Nationally televised summit on the future of the world”. Good reminder of perspective. I’m still laughing. :)

    Paul, Greg always looks at things rather interestingly :) – Has much wisdom that i personally benefited from, one that i would gladly meet at the pub, shout a bevy or several etc.. And mate, if you are ever in Melbourne yourself – hit me up as love to catch up.

    Cheers

    Jason Ramage | Lucas Arthur Pty Ltd | E: hello@lucasarthur.net.au   P: 61 3 8324 0344    M: 61 412 244 888
    #1190554
    Greg_M
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    “And mate, if you are ever in Melbourne yourself – hit me up as love to catch up.”

    Ditto, but I’ll not be living in Vic for much longer … selling everything up (why I’m painting the laundry) and heading to SA.

    Off topic, but the old bloke has decided to have one more adventure … bought a buggered 100 year old stone house by the sea (top of Spencer Gulf) … couldn’t resist – the local pub (also a 100 years old) does real steak and kidney pie on Thursday nights, and fresh caught local squid is $13.50 for a main … so I’m gone, life’s too short to hang about.

    Interestingly the 4g network is better than where I live now, so I may call in when I’m not renovating or fishing.

    Cheers

    #1190555
    Jason Ramage
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    Greg_M, post: 224001, member: 38207 wrote:
    “And mate, if you are ever in Melbourne yourself – hit me up as love to catch up.”

    Ditto, but I’ll not be living in Vic for much longer … selling everything up (why I’m painting the laundry) and heading to SA.

    Off topic, but the old bloke has decided to have one more adventure … bought a buggered 100 year old stone house by the sea (top of Spencer Gulf) … couldn’t resist – the local pub (also a 100 years old) does real steak and kidney pie on Thursday nights, and fresh caught local squid is $13.50 for a main … so I’m gone, life’s too short to hang about.

    Interestingly the 4g network is better than where I live now, so I may call in when I’m not renovating or fishing.

    Cheers

    Always envious of your disposition and adventures :)

    Mate, let me know when you move – Thursday nights sounds good…. mmind you, so does the ink producing squiddies.. Now im hungry!

    LOL re 4g..

    Jason Ramage | Lucas Arthur Pty Ltd | E: hello@lucasarthur.net.au   P: 61 3 8324 0344    M: 61 412 244 888
    #1190556
    Peter – FS Administrator
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    There’s some gold going on in here this arvo :) Wise insights along with comedy, and in between some of the most polite ‘conflict’ ever seen on FS!!

    Seriously though, we always appreciate this sort of feedback as it helps us evolve in what is a seriously fast-changing time to be in business.

    On that note Greg, this really sounds so appealing on a rainy Friday arvo…

    a buggered 100 year old stone house by the sea (top of Spencer Gulf) … couldn’t resist – the local pub (also a 100 years old) does real steak and kidney pie on Thursday nights, and fresh caught local squid is $13.50 for a main … so I’m gone, life’s too short to hang about.

    I’m glad there’s a 4G network as it would be great to hear how it progresses!

    Have good weekends all.
    Peter

    #1190557
    SDS_CAD
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    Well, perhaps I’m guilty of something the OP mentioned during the initial posts in this thread – digging up an old thread to comment on!
    I just wanted to throw my 2 cents into it – even just so the mods have a tiny little bit more feedback.

    I run my business as a sole trader, kicking along for about 3 years now.
    I rarely have the time to browse through threads looking for something to comment on – and in all honesty, I’m guilty of something else the OP said – not really believing that I have anything useful to contribute!

    Like many others, I signed up here because I wanted to get some advice on a few things (I think I’ve only posted 2 or 3 times in total), and it’s exactly the same each time – I come back because I have a query that I needed answered.

    Interestingly enough, FS actually HAS become a bit of an authority on small business advice – if you do a Google search for anything small business related, you’ll see FS pop up amongst the first few search results, every time.
    That’s gotta be a nice feeling for the FS crew :)

    I would say that the biggest reasons there isn’t more active involvement are:
    – like me, most people feel like they’re beginners and wouldn’t have a lot to offer in the way of advice
    – I would guess that many of the signups are people that are THINKING about starting a business; they ask a question or two then either discard the idea or “put it off til later”… which they never come back to.

    One of my clients actually said to me once “I’ve flirted with business ownership, but as you can see I’m back working full-time again now”.

    Just some general thoughts, apologies for digging up a 4 month old post ;)
    Glenn

    #1190558
    Dave Gillen – Former FS Concierge
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    Thanks for the input Glenn!

    Keep in mind that even if you only ask questions it’s likely that other people are dealing with the same things, so you’re actually contributing just by raising the issue. :)

    Dave

    #1190559
    Anonymous
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    I don’t know if it’s high. I’ve been a member for maybe 18 months and come and go. I try and be polite and thank people when they provide advice or information.

    Maybe it’s the way I write things however I sometimes encounter what seem to be rather cynical comments, or disbelief in what I have written. If I knew everything I wouldn’t be here except to perhaps share that information. Some posters seem to have forgotten that they were (or maybe still are) newbies with no experience or knowledge, and that people have had different experiences to their own.

    #1190560
    bluepenguin
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    I’ve never seen this post before today, but if it’s still appropriate i thought I’d add my 2 cents.

    I’ve been hanging around for about 5 years and am slowly approaching 1,000 posts, but don’t tend to spend a lot of time here any more. I usually visit and have a quick browse through things when I’ve run out of ways to procrastinate.

    After skimming the contents of this thread I’m feeling that there are 3 main reasons I have personally stopped coming here regularly.

    The main one is that the general culture of the place is not as appealing as it was when I first joined. Back then it seemed to be much more friendly, supportive and positive than it is now. It used to be bustling with all kinds of interesting people who generally wanted to help and be helped, and escape from the pressure of small business for a few minutes here and there (a lot of whom had only signed up to promote their own business and where lured into the community by how impressive it was – guilty as charged!). Now when I pop in to have a look at things, I just see the same handful of people posting content that just appears to be rather self-indulgent and not very helpful or uplifting.

    The second reason is that when the forum software changed, I found the UI really confusing and unintuitive compared to the old one. With the need to go mobile, maybe there was no other alternative, but it took so much effort to work out what was going on that I gave up on it for a while.

    The final reason, and maybe it’s a credit to the forum, is that my business grew and I had less time to slack off and hang around on forums. Oh, and I got Netflix.

    Overall, I’ve always been impressed by the team who run FS. From behind my little screen, they’ve always seemed to be incredibly humble, positive, fair and willing to get involved and get their hands dirty to make sure that everything runs smoothly and benefits the community. Because of that, I’m hesitant to be speak negatively of this place, as the positives of FS far outweigh the negatives a gazzilion to one and everyone that’s part of it should celebrated for all they do for small business, and the individuals that are silly enough to run them.

    #1190561
    sam_leader
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    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Obviously we are particularly chuffed with your commentary about the FS team! We put a heap of effort into nurturing a healthy environment and to have it noticed by the community is v. rewarding.

    With regards the bigger picture you identify, my observation is the media in general and people’s attention specifically has become increasingly fragmented in recent years. Also it feels as if people are more time poor than ever. Still we operate pretty successfully against that backdrop and are still pleasantly surprised by the number of people who remark “I am so pleased I found you guys!”

    And why do they find us? They search a small biz related question on Google and there’s a very good chance that one of this forum’s posts shows up in the first few results. It may even be one you contributed to!

    We have every intention of staying in it for the long haul, supporting and serving our community in the best way we know how.

    Thanks again for your supportive comments.

    Sam on behalf of the FS team

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