Home Forums Tech talk Why most small-medium business shouldn’t outsource SEO

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  • #1175225
    bb1
    Participant
    • Total posts: 4,485
    MatthewKeath, post: 208458 wrote:
    I think the point was that you will rank for those anyway, while trying to rank for phrases the have more traffic.

    No as it goes on further to say “It’s not a good investment of the clients money, or the agencies time, to be mucking around chasing low search volume terms. It’s pointless”

    My point is that if its not a huge additional cost, why not.

    I once spent 5 minutes and about $5 on a bit of local advertising and was told by one of the people who lived there that I was wasting my time, within 2 weeks I picked up a $20K plus a year contract, which I still have. A very small investment for a very very large ROI. I dont call that pointless, just very good marketing.

    If you are going for online marketing, if you dont get your website in front of the potential clients, someone else will.

    #1175226
    MatthewKeath
    Member
    • Total posts: 3,184
    bb1, post: 208467 wrote:
    No as it goes on further to say “It’s not a good investment of the clients money, or the agencies time, to be mucking around chasing low search volume terms. It’s pointless”

    My point is that if its not a huge additional cost, why not.

    I once spent 5 minutes and about $5 on a bit of local advertising and was told by one of the people who lived there that I was wasting my time, within 2 weeks I picked up a $20K plus a year contract, which I still have. A very small investment for a very very large ROI. I dont call that pointless, just very good marketing.

    If you are going for online marketing, if you dont get your website in front of the potential clients, someone else will.

    I’m not going to argue, but John is not suggesting for a minute that sites he works with will not show up on low traffic keywords, it’s just if you are going to pay someone 1,000 per month, you hope they are going to try and do more that get you an extra 10 views on your site per month.

    He is saying you get those 10 views, plus the 1000 more. Makes perfect sense to me.

    Further more, if you go to an marketing agency, and you all they do is put a $5 ad somewhere and hope, I assume you would be annoyed. Sure you got a big client, but I doubt that happens often

    #1175227
    SocialStep
    Member
    • Total posts: 39
    John Romaine, post: 203915 wrote:
    ….must……..hold………..back

    I’ve worked in the industry for a while now too… admittedly I now focus on social media marketing, but yeah… hold back.

    It’s a discussion that comes up time and time again because genuine SEO work costs money (or TIME – lots of it) for quality.

    – Content creation
    – Technical changes onsite
    – Monitoring
    – Social media campaigns (I consider it an important arm of SEO these days)
    – Building relationships with other websites/businesses (although guest posting seems less effectual now?)
    – Learning and keeping up to date with ALL changes to search engine algorithms and best practice

    I can keep going but I think that may explain some of the costs and hurdles for a small business considering either option.

    #1175228
    John Romaine
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,104
    SocialStep, post: 208478 wrote:
    I’ve worked in the industry for a while now too… admittedly I now focus on social media marketing, but yeah… hold back.

    It’s a discussion that comes up time and time again because genuine SEO work costs money (or TIME – lots of it) for quality.

    – Content creation
    – Technical changes onsite
    – Monitoring
    – Social media campaigns (I consider it an important arm of SEO these days)
    – Building relationships with other websites/businesses (although guest posting seems less effectual now?)
    – Learning and keeping up to date with ALL changes to search engine algorithms and best practice

    I can keep going but I think that may explain some of the costs and hurdles for a small business considering either option.

    Exactly right. It takes time.

    When a client provides me with a list of over a dozen competitor’s sites to go through, I can spend 2 days doing so. That’s 16 hours. At $125 an hour, that’s $2,000.

    This is why it’s frustrating when I see companies offering SEO for $99 a month. It’s ridiculous.

    Again, this stuff doesn’t just happen “magically”. In order to do it right, it takes real people, putting in real hours.

    #1175229
    bb1
    Participant
    • Total posts: 4,485
    MatthewKeath, post: 208469 wrote:
    I’m not going to argue, but John is not suggesting for a minute that sites he works with will not show up on low traffic keywords, it’s just if you are going to pay someone 1,000 per month, you hope they are going to try and do more that get you an extra 10 views on your site per month.

    He is saying you get those 10 views, plus the 1000 more. Makes perfect sense to me.

    Further more, if you go to an marketing agency, and you all they do is put a $5 ad somewhere and hope, I assume you would be annoyed. Sure you got a big client, but I doubt that happens often

    Matt, I suppose the big question is even if you get the extra 1000 or extra 10, the best SEO in the world may still not give you one extra client.

    But if your business fundamentals are right, that extra 10 could just give you the one magical client.

    Ive given everyone else an example of where going that extra step resulted in a $20K contract, which heaps of others were in a better position to win it, but I looked beyind the 1000, and targetted the 10.

    not going to argue because I look at the bigger marketing picture I guess.

    #1175230
    John Romaine
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,104
    MatthewKeath, post: 208469 wrote:
    Further more, if you go to an marketing agency, and you all they do is put a $5 ad somewhere and hope, I assume you would be annoyed.

    Exactly my point.

    #1175231
    bb1
    Participant
    • Total posts: 4,485
    MatthewKeath, post: 208469 wrote:
    Further more, if you go to an marketing agency, and you all they do is put a $5 ad somewhere and hope, I assume you would be annoyed. Sure you got a big client, but I doubt that happens often

    Sorry I missed this bit, my post didnt say I went to a marketing agency for a $5 ad.

    And I have heard of other people getting major clients this way.

    I just knocked back a potential client as I dont work in that area, but they were just on a fishing expedition anyhow.

    #1175232
    John Romaine
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,104

    bb1, there’s nothing wrong with picking up those small terms, it’s just never a focal point as part of large marketing campaigns.

    Bigger businesses tend to say things like …”We want to increase our overall organic traffic by 30% within 6 months” as opposed to “How can we rank for toasted sandwiches Beenleigh”

    #1175233
    bb1
    Participant
    • Total posts: 4,485
    John Romaine, post: 208501 wrote:
    Bigger businesses tend to say things like …”We want to increase our overall organic traffic by 30% within 6 months” as opposed to “How can we rank for toasted sandwiches Beenleigh”

    I don’t mind toasted sandwhichs but prefer cheese please.

    but seriously I agree, but your answer highlights the thing, We are on Flying solo, which is mainly small business’s, and yes Macca’s dont want to increase there “toasted sandwhich” sales, but BB1’s corner cafe would love to.

    Its the audience that this forum is focussed on, even the title is small to medium not bigger. As a small or medium business, if we can sneak in that one extra search term, it could just bring us that extra customer or 2. yes the $20K contract is a bonus, but to a lot of this type of business, an extra few toasted sangers a week can be a lot.

    #1175234
    John Romaine
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,104
    bb1, post: 208503 wrote:
    I don’t mind toasted sandwhichs but prefer cheese please.

    but seriously I agree, but your answer highlights the thing, We are on Flying solo, which is mainly small business’s, and yes Macca’s dont want to increase there “toasted sandwhich” sales, but BB1’s corner cafe would love to.

    Its the audience that this forum is focussed on, even the title is small to medium not bigger. As a small or medium business, if we can sneak in that one extra search term, it could just bring us that extra customer or 2. yes the $20K contract is a bonus, but to a lot of this type of business, an extra few toasted sangers a week can be a lot.

    No, you’re right. It comes down to customer profile.

    Now I feel like a toasted sammich.

    #1175235
    bb1
    Participant
    • Total posts: 4,485
    John Romaine, post: 208504 wrote:
    No, you’re right. It comes down to customer profile.

    Now I feel like a toasted sammich.

    Damn (can I say that here), my sandwhich maker broke last week or I would make myself one as well

    #1175236
    Aidan
    Member
    • Total posts: 1,125

    Toasted chicken & cheese with cracked pepper for me while you’re at it please gents.

    #1175237
    MatthewKeath
    Member
    • Total posts: 3,184
    bb1, post: 208498 wrote:
    Sorry I missed this bit, my post didn’t say I went to a marketing agency for a $5 ad.No, my point is if you went TO an ad agency and they just put a $5 on gumtree or wherever, and you got no results, you would want to know why they didn’t do more for the money you were paying to them.

    Oh, that PM I sent, it wasn’t for me. My partners friend who lives in Beaconsfield ask the question on FB. I would have simply passed on your details but for love or money I couldn’t find a way to contact you but here. Do you exist?

    And I don’t live in Eltham, whatever gave you that idea?

    I actually like giving work to people here… Sorry if that offended you.

    #1175238
    Cesar
    Member
    • Total posts: 591

    “Who gives a Rats Patootie” BB1. :D

    What you will find, by ranking for high competitive search phrases, you will also rank for the uncommon ones as well, without trying. I know from my own experience, after getting feedback from my customers, I’m always surprised with some of the search phrases my customers actually used to find us.

    All you need to focus on, is the truly important stuff. You will find that, the majority of SEO so-called professionals offering guarantees, promise they can rank you for those uncommon, dodgy and unprofitable keywords. They are the ones to stay clear from.

    These days though, don’t focus too much on keywords, because if you know your product inside-out, the search phrases will appear naturally within your content.

    #1175239
    bb1
    Participant
    • Total posts: 4,485
    Cesar, post: 208532 wrote:
    “Who gives a Rats Patootie” BB1. :D

    .
    I’m sure that any client would hope that you did, if i hire someone I would like to know that they are looking at the best solution for me as the client. Strange comment

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