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  • #1015422
    Richard A
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    Burgo, post: 17230 wrote:
    Great place for tradies.

    Now as for the ‘oldies’ maybe Im not quite in that category at 67.
    You would be surprised just how many senior citizens use the internet to surf for what they need, they just type in what they are looking for usually do a comparison and try and get the best deal.

    I really get a buz out of just how many seniors are computer savvy, Ive even met several 80 + year olds using it. The yellow pages is a dying duck, as many seniors cant remember where they put when it came in or it just tooslow to look up thing from it have a look at Greypath, From memory its http://www.greypath.com it is a seniors forum and believe me it is very active with many members

    Hope that helps.

    Great suggestion Burgo – thanks!

    PS. 67 huh?? Looking for a retirement home?? Call me!

    #1015423
    Richard A
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    Thanks one and all for your comments. Certainly was a nugget or two in there somewhere.

    It looks as though the general consensus is to avoid the YP?

    However I am thinking I will proceed with a small test-run somewhere to see how it goes. The trouble with being a new business (and a new concept in the market) is that you have to try a few different mediums to see what works. I have heard anecdotally from some retirement village sales agents that they get considerable enquiry from their YP ads.

    I understand that our seniors are getting connected and have even written an article on it. When I speak to my market however, very few of them are actually on the Internet or have email.

    The seniors market is very different to other age demographics and most companies and marketers don’t do this sector well at all.

    Anyways, thanks for helping out on the journey!

    Richard

    #1015424
    Burgo
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    There is always National Seniors magazine or a Seniors magazine produced by Centrelink, they hit the market that you are looking at. NRMA or the equivelent have magazines that go to their members on a regular basis.

    If you are looking at the Baby Boomers market magazines like Money or anything to do with Financial planning. Send a brochure to all the Finanacial Planners. These are just random thoughts that may help.

    #1015425
    spotty
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    I believe Yellow has some advantages dependant on the demographic. One of my other businesses spends $7k annually and it is very successful for the regional areas (only advertiser in category in some books certainly helps) but doesn’t work at all in CBDs. We have recently upgraded to premium listings with Yellow 123 and got great results also. Yellow online has just been dropped as the ROI wasn’t there after two years with Google adwords being more effective. I do love it when the rep comes to see me every year and quotes stats and I then pull up my spreadsheet that shows completely different ones (although still really good), she actually didn’t quote anything this year – maybe she finally realises I can’t be upsold to anything larger than what I already have.

    #1015426
    soliddata
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    Jules, post: 17365 wrote:
    Have a look at this… http://www.yellowturningblue.com.au/ It was produced by truelocal.com.au so yes, they are a competitor to the yellow pages online BUT, the stats are all independent from Roy Morgan and refer to the Yellow Pages PRINT version specifically.

    Fairly compelling argument I’d say to steer clear of the print version.

    Thanks Julia,

    That is pretty strong evidence alright :-)

    Kev

    #1015427
    MatthewKeath
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    I think that the fact that the media has made a issue out of people not wanting books anymore, something that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago, speaks for itself. Think of the environmental argument. All those trees!

    If the books are not yet dead, the writing is on the wall.

    As for online, they are stuck in the old paper business model. People pay to place ad, the place ad and give people books, and people use it. The name, and some clever ads, was all that was needed to to the competitors from their door.

    Online advertising methods such as Google adwords are the future of small business marketing, and I believe Facebook will in the longer term be a powerful tool.

    Yellow had it good for many years but the party is over.

    As for seniors, I think you will amazed how web savy they are. I suggest you give PPC a go.

    Matt

    #1015428
    soliddata
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    MatthewKeath, post: 18111 wrote:
    If the books are not yet dead, the writing is on the wall.
    Matt

    I will pose a similar question here to what I did earlier (and which was very well answered I must admit) – you say the writing is on the wall for books, so what real evidence is there of that?

    My anecdotal evidence is of my 6 year old and 9 year old – both millenials – they have grown up with computers and use them multiple times per day for games, email etc etc – but the still read books for up to two hours per day… there is still a need for physical things to hold on to and feel that they own, its human nature.

    Kev

    #1015429
    MatthewKeath
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    My anecdotal evidence is the same as yours, knowing a 20 something tell me “When I moved to a new area I found all my stuff I needed online. When I was looking for a hair dresser, I didn’t even bother about the businesses who didn’t have a webpage. But this is not proof.”

    But also from colleges, friends, Uncles, Friends of Friends etc all who have found something they needed by searching online.

    But concrete evidence? Thing like the growth of the internet (and revenue) search queries from comScore <here> and the growth of Internet use in Australia in general <here> paint a picture of a shift, slow moving of course, but unstoppable, to the Internet as a source of information. Compelling but know proof.

    Truelocal.com.au has released their own Morgan backed study into the use of book in Australia. <here>. Also compelling but with such a vested interest hardly proof.

    Also interesting is the study that suggests over half of people would stop getting the books if they could <here>. I have never heard of this issue being raised before, and never would have been only a few years ago

    I may have been melodramatic with my language before, but if it is not dying, the business model certainly has challenges going forward.

    Cheers – thanks for the thought provoking question!

    soliddata, post: 18222 wrote:
    there is still a need for physical things to hold on to and feel that they own, its human nature.

    I agree fully. But yellow books are not real books, only lists of business. I love reading real books and that will never fall out of favor.

    Matt

    #1015430
    soliddata
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    • Total posts: 392
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    My mistake – in your post you mention simply “books”… :-)

    I fully agree – Yellow Pages books are becoming redundant!

    Kev

    #1015431
    Anonymous
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    I also heard that Yellow Pages ONLINE has “no follow” for all the website links within their directory ?

    If they have no follow on all their links, I don’t see the point in advertising with them …. also, my website has ranked pretty damn great (first page if not the top 3 results) for all the keywords I require… and that’s enough for me… so I also don’t see the point in submitting my business to yellow pages when my results from google (mainly) sustain me.

    granted, my ideal customer is around my age, internet savvy with animals … so i want people who look to google first not the yellow pages for their pet sitting, dog walking etc needs.

    #1015432
    MatthewKeath
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    vstacy, post: 18336 wrote:
    I also heard that Yellow Pages ONLINE has “no follow” for all the website links within their directory ?

    If they have no follow on all their links, I don’t see the point in advertising with them …. also, my website has ranked pretty damn great (first page if not the top 3 results) for all the keywords I require… and that’s enough for me… so I also don’t see the point in submitting my business to yellow pages when my results from google (mainly) sustain me.

    granted, my ideal customer is around my age, internet savvy with animals … so i want people who look to google first not the yellow pages for their pet sitting, dog walking etc needs.

    Excellent post.

    #1015433
    RawMarketing
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    Just a short inclusion from something I read above…..

    There is a big difference between:

    1) Marketing Products that are clever / innovative (i.e. Generating Media Interest, iPhone Downloads)
    2) Marketing Products that work (i.e. Google)
    3) Marketing Products that make the publisher easy money (i.e. YellowPages)

    I’ve started developing media tools in the last year and it’s really interesting trying to find the right balance. Most businesses just want a simple, easy to understand marketing plan that they can understand (usually the 3rd option, the YellowPages model). I started off really inspired to make Innovative and Results-Focussed marketing strategies, but my clients simply won’t buy them… They want something tangible.

    A large player in the media industry aren’t thinking “How can we make money for our clients?” …. they’re thinking “How can we make money for ourselves?”. As long as their research stats they present to clients to generate (mass) sales for them, they’re probably happier keeping it simple rather than complicating.

    You can’t provide their (guesstimate) 100,000+ clients Australia wide all with a specialist marketing package.

    YP know their share is going down, they’re just going to try and minimize it as much as possible.

    #1015434
    TSH-SR
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    • Total posts: 45
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    I’ll jump in late here,

    I am a tradie that goes in and out of peoples houses all day everyday, I have a real “need” to know where my leads come from.
    Over the last 13 years in larger regional centres the following observations are made.

    YP print returns me 93% of all non referral leads – Referral is about 25% of all new business

    Of the roughly 480 houses per year I walk through I always look for phone books – on average I see 2-3 non Sensis Local directories per year and 450 YP books

    You must test the ads and the category yourself – take no input at all from the YP consultant , as mentioned above they get 2 days hard sell training only.

    Take the blinkers off and ask other people what category they would look under for your product – it can really blow your mind what they will say they search under. THIS IS WHY IN MY VIEW YP ONLINE DOES NOT WORK, google gives a much broader search ability.

    When asked why they chose my ad, 50% say because it was not the biggest and not the smallest

    The other 50% say it was because of a key phrase or word in my ad.

    I cover 4 categories for a total spend of $4k in Print in a large regional book.

    2 categories get colour, 2 in Yellow and black no ad bigger than a business card size.

    I disagree with the comments that the print version is a dinosaur – it will need a serious rethink in the comiong years in my mind, but compared to other print advertising in my field it is light years ahead in lead production.

    The last word is this – If you are too busy to ask your leads where they heard about you or got your number, stop spending any money on advertising right now and send the $50 notes you are wasting to me.

    Just a few thoughts

    Regards
    Tony

    #1015435
    Dani
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    • Total posts: 7
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    I have created a number of small websites for local Adelaide businesses who just do not have the the kind of budget that is required to advertise in the yellow pages.

    They have all expressed to me that the online directories i listed their local business in have “put them on the map” and that 90% of their business comes from their online presence.

    I know have begun running an affordable online directory ($25 per year) to back up and support my website customers and to help put other small Adelaide businesses get on the map.

    #1015436
    Hugh Thyer
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    Tony – Thank you for your post. I think you’ve now put the issue to bed. YPA works, at least in the tradie category.

    Danielle – Remember, if your businesses only have an online presence it makes sense that most of their money comes from their online presence. Its impossible to judge how effective the YPA are using businesses who do not use it.

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